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+--- Thread: Guard IDs, a discussion (/showthread.php?tid=31290)
Guard IDs, a discussion - Rudo - 12-18-2009
I had this discussion with someone some time back, and it resulted in the Junker Guard ID turned into the Gallic Junker ID as a simple quick fix for all the clamoring for a separate ID for Gallic Junkers.
I proposed this change because as I looked at the various Guard IDs, I found little reason to have two IDs for every faction with a guard system. You have pirate factions, and the pirate faction guard. Military factions, and the military faction guard. The IDs for the most part are mirror images of one another with the exception that one allows the use of bigger ships after having ground out more missions for your faction of choice.
Looking at capital pilots today in comparison to those of 4.84, the time before Guard IDs, I see little difference except more obviously restricted ZOIs. The Guard ID has done little to encourage roleplay interaction or the will to learn it. And that is for factions that actually have capital class vessels to restrict usage to. What about groups like the Junkers, GMG and Hogosha? There is little use for a guard ID among those factions, as for the most part due to smart fine-tuning on the part of the developers, the normal ID allows all the activities warranted by the guard card, minus the million credits and extra hour spent shooting starfliers.
Some factions with capital vessels have even gone and taken those vessels off the guard ID as they continued to be abused, making the ships Special RP only. What use is the Guard ID in those factions?
All I've seen thus far in my faction, and I'm sure various others may have found the same, is that some confused individuals get the Guard as they feel it makes them more 'Navy' than other regular ID'd Navy players, or more 'Junker' than other Junkers. Both of these are hilarious, as you can't be more Navy than the Navy, or more Junker than a Junker. Shooting underlevel spaceships without interacting with anyone else for hours on end does not entitle anyone to greater standing in the RP community, and the Guard ID as a badge of prestige is kind of silly.
So let's say that the Guard ID in its original purpose has fallen flat. No offense to the ones with the idea, it was a proposed solution to a serious problem. Now that we're all a bit older and wiser we all know the problem does in fact not lie in the game mechanics, but in the players. But the Guard IDs are still there. Should they be repurposed somehow? Just removed from the mod as an idea that seemed good at the time? Anything else?
Note that an obvious exception to this point and an excellent example of good use of a Guard ID is the Bounty Hunters Guild Core, which has its own separate RP behind it and is completely justified in being its own entity. Maybe other 'Guard' IDs should have such planning before they're thrown into the mix and confuse the easily confused.
Your thoughts, please.
Guard IDs, a discussion - pieguy259 - 12-18-2009
Guard IDs, you say?
Have they served their purpose? Hmm.
I am not quite sure.
To be honest, I think that all guards
Should be checked to make sure they aren't tards.
Also, their IDs
Though they are the bees' knees
Should be altered to more fitting cards.
Guard IDs, a discussion - Rudo - 12-18-2009
Pieguy gets a cookie.
Keep it coming. Kindly keep factions vs. indies sentiments out of the thread, warning you in advance.
Anyone with a big moderating stick has my full blessing to thwack with impunity those who would sully my fine thread with these foul thoughts.
Guard IDs, a discussion - Tomtomrawr - 12-18-2009
I have a suggestion:
Remove the Guard IDs and allow normal IDs to fly larger ships. But we make it so every ship larger than a Cruiser can only be used through a special RP request. Now, this would overload the current Admins and Moderators with requests, so we promote some members of the community to handle these requests.
Now, lolwuts would still buy capital ships anyway, so we edit an item that is already in place. The Battleship Licence. It could be the Approved Capital Ship Licence. My idea is that it is given out to capital ships that have permission, and acts the same as the Battleship Licence. There could even be a price to purchase this licence (maybe 100 million credits, or something like that?).
So, the Approved Capital Ship Licence is mounted on all approved Cruisers and Battleships in the place of the scanner, just like the current Battleship Licence. Then if anyone see any capital ships without this licence the ship can be reported and removed.
Any comments on this idea?
Edit: I voted to remove the Guard ID, because it has failed. It was a good idea, but it just isn't helping.
Guard IDs, a discussion - Birdtalon - 12-18-2009
Nothing but restriction on caps with stop the OORP ones.
Guard IDs have their purpose though, it distinguishes the good from the great in RP terms
Guard IDs, a discussion - Athenian - 12-18-2009
I think the guard ID's worked well for the BHG, because the Guard one was constructed around a completely different set of priorities in terms of roleplay. It allowed different actions, and restricted things that the regular ID permitted. That is the key to making the Guard ID truly unique and worthwhile.
Ill post them here later so I can illustrate what I'm talking about.
Guard IDs, a discussion - mnbnbf - 12-18-2009
I know for the Order at least, you need to have green Guard rep to get the Nomad weapons. I guess that semi-restricts it until you've... ground enough missions for it. (No bribes for Order)
I know personally I got Order guard ID/IFF as a way to show that I was invested enough in the Order to get it. *shrug*
Doesn't matter to me especially either way, but it would be nice to see them used in a more creative way.
Guard IDs, a discussion - Markus_Janus - 12-18-2009
The problem is that any guard ID can be acquired in two nites, one if you have enough time to put in game.
This eliminates any sort of telling you anything about the pilot wearing it in terms of their RP or abilities.
If anything I like the idea of the way the BHG ID is done, it opens up a different RP for that faction.
We do not really need this as their are as many different ways to RP a faction as their are stars in the sky, but it could help others recognize you if you choose the one or two popular ways to RP a faction.
Guard IDs, a discussion - Govedo13 - 12-18-2009
Gurad Id means nothing...
Every noob can do 40 missions and take it or just buy it at the Ship Sale even now somebody even offer to make Guard ID for you for a couple of credits(Not Flaming but this SUX) .After that buying a lowcap and you all know the story....
There are only one possible decision , however really hard to implement. There must be faction ids I mean not NPC ones but people ones like CR for example.If you want to fly big Cap ship you must prove yourself that you are capable to RP with this Ship and to fight with this ship. The bigger ships must be given from the faction Leaders on the rang. This will cause 2 big problems.
1.Organisation will be really hard on the faction level
2. The server will loose his numbers ,the 90% of the people here are not here for the Role Play but for fighting and massive player interaction.
So you cannot expect that more than 80-100 People will play even evenings.If you see topics for 6-8 months back in the time you will see that people had problems with finding a slot in order to play( that was in the time of bomber whoring).
This decision is however up to the Dev team and admins.
In my opinion it must be in the middle not only Role Play not only PvP. BUt both of them. If you make bigger ships like battleships to be given many noobs will play lowcaps with cruisers but many will try to prove themselves in order to be able to fly battleship.As I say I am in the middle I enjoy role play but I enjoy action too. The bigger part of older members here are mostly RP oriented, the bigger part of new players are PvP oriented, in order to preserve the balance you must do something if you do nothing the numbers of players will go further low.I understand that the people witch has the power to change things in server are hardcore RP oriented.Such people do events with 5 players and are happy after that for the nice RP and Fight. That means that every hour played in Pennsylvania was event for me and I am happy about that.It is just a point of view.
Making more rules and restrictions (like the Line Hacker Guard id) in order to stop new players buying bigger ships make the new players find a way to go around this rules. They are not playing on order to prove themselves in order to have the big ship they just power mine or power trade to have the cash after that buy the Cap at the ship sale.No RP no guard ID nothinhg......
Making more ships harder to get but not with rule restrictions,the Fort in Vespucci is nice example of my idea.Make more challenging missions for taking a guard id.Forbid selling guard ided starflyers on the ship sale or topics like give me 40 mill I will guard id your ship.
Make server not hardcore RP server, try to find the middle way otherwise after a few months or in a year may be the players will be not more than 60-80 even in the pick times.The most of the people play games for fun in their free time.My room-mate plays Disco with me like from 1 month ago he starts to understand what is this all now, after 1 month playing.The game is really complex and time is needed to understand what to do and what not.
This were my 2 cents.
Guard IDs, a discussion - Tovig - 12-18-2009
' Wrote:I think the guard ID's worked well for the BHG, because the Guard one was constructed around a completely different set of priorities in terms of roleplay. It allowed different actions, and restricted things that the regular ID permitted. That is the key to making the Guard ID truly unique and worthwhile.
Ill post them here later so I can illustrate what I'm talking about.
/signed
The Guard ID in a way to restrict capitals ships to lolwuts is a total failure, indeed.
It must be removed ? I'm not sure. Tenacity proposed something for the Order about restricting capships, I think It could work for every faction in the game :
Quote:-The addition of an item, perhaps a replacement scanner (much like a battleship license) - for the purposes of explanation, this item will be referred to as an "order capship license"
-The "order capship license" is not purchaseable on any dockable base. Instead, a joint 'bank' character is created which all members of Order High Command have access to. This bank is given a number of these licenses by the administration.
-Each time a player requests the purchase of a capship (for the purposes of this discussion, capship is anything of cruiser size or larger - gunboats are still free use for all players), the order high command reviews that player's roleplay - whether it is on the forums or in-game. Not everyone may have good story writing skills or the desire to make exceedingly long forum posts explaining why they should be able to fly a capital ship, which is why we would also take in-game behavior into consideration, in order to determine if a player is responsible and restrained enough to not abuse such a craft.
-If it is agreed upon by the majority of the high command that a player deserves the ship which they are requesting, then the 'bank' character will give that player the "order capship license", and the player will be permitted to purchase the ship they requested. A detailed listing of all permitted players and what ships they were allowed will be kept, so that 'trading' of the license, or changing one's ship after being approved, can be punished.
-Any players who fly an order capital ship either without the license equipped, or fly a capital ship which they were not approved for, may have that ship removed by the admins (deleted or replaced with a fighter) without warning. The order cruiser, carrier, and battleship infocards will be updated to readily state that these ships may not be used without an order capship license, and warning the player of the consequences of purchasing the ship without the license - as well as how the license may be acquired.