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Balance: Unkillable Battleships - Printable Version

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RE: Balance: Unkillable Battleships - Highland Laddie - 06-09-2014

(06-09-2014, 05:25 PM)Govedo13 Wrote: ....IF the devs had a bit idea about balancing they would had made battleships to cruise at 390, however the charge up times should be at least 50 seconds. ..

I could see something like that working...but not 390. Maybe 375 and 35 seconds for moderation.


RE: Balance: Unkillable Battleships - Trogdor - 06-09-2014

During the massive furball in Manhattan yesterday, I was watching the LN battleships fight. In short: Lots of shooting, very little hitting.

The one LN dread that was effective was the one sneaking up behind people, uncloaking, blurting out some prewritten engagement notice and then immediately unloading point blank into his target. Then he'd run away, refuel, and do it again.

I don't like this. I don't like the temptation of 'hey, maybe if I exploit this, I might actually be effective for once'. Change this such that when you cloak, you lose your weapon pool, but you can still cruise, and you keep your shields.

Then fix bs missiles and give bs an anti-cruiser sniper turret plzkthxbai


RE: Balance: Unkillable Battleships - SnakThree - 06-09-2014

(06-09-2014, 05:52 PM)Trogdor Wrote: During the massive furball in Manhattan yesterday, I was watching the LN battleships fight. In short: Lots of shooting, very little hitting.

The one LN dread that was effective was the one sneaking up behind people, uncloaking, blurting out some prewritten engagement notice and then immediately unloading point blank into his target. Then he'd run away, refuel, and do it again.

I don't like this. I don't like the temptation of 'hey, maybe if I exploit this, I might actually be effective for once'. Change this such that when you cloak, you lose your weapon pool, but you can still cruise, and you keep your shields.

Then fix bs missiles and give bs an anti-cruiser sniper turret plzkthxbai

That sounds like me, though I do most of RP before dropping engagement preset and uncloak, thus not really a bad sportsmanship, right?

Let's compare these devices used on Battleships:

Cloak is put on CM slot and is CDable. Using cloak deshields you. Takes 60 seconds to charge.
JumpDrive is put on special slot and is not disruptable. Using JumpDrive doesn't deshield you. Takes 30 seconds to charge.

Cloak has 4 disadvantages compared to JumpDrive. The only thing Cloak Device is good at is ambushing the crap out of slow or unsuspecting targets while JumpDrive is not able to do the same.

I am pretty sure that cloak is the lesser evil here.


RE: Balance: Unkillable Battleships - [FC]Flox - 06-09-2014

The unloaking and cloaking is acceptable. If you decide its a good idea to attack New York, stuff like thats going to happen. Its liberties HQ, if you think you can just stroll in without a proper plan well....yeah.

Now about jumping. If you jump, your ship should be disabled for a moment also if your in a battle and jump out it should be rp'd as going to get repairs. The thing is repairs take time. So if you jump out you can rejoin within 15 or 20 minutes.


RE: Balance: Unkillable Battleships - Knjaz - 06-13-2014

(06-09-2014, 05:52 PM)Trogdor Wrote: During the massive furball in Manhattan yesterday, I was watching the LN battleships fight. In short: Lots of shooting, very little hitting.

The one LN dread that was effective was the one sneaking up behind people, uncloaking, blurting out some prewritten engagement notice and then immediately unloading point blank into his target. Then he'd run away, refuel, and do it again.

I don't like this. I don't like the temptation of 'hey, maybe if I exploit this, I might actually be effective for once'. Change this such that when you cloak, you lose your weapon pool, but you can still cruise, and you keep your shields.

Then fix bs missiles and give bs an anti-cruiser sniper turret plzkthxbai

The bolded part.
Doesn't it sound like a huge balance problem by itself, when certain ship class has to use exploits to be efficient?

(06-09-2014, 06:21 PM)Snak3 Wrote: Cloak has 4 disadvantages compared to JumpDrive. The only thing Cloak Device is good at is ambushing the crap out of slow or unsuspecting targets while JumpDrive is not able to do the same.

I am pretty sure that cloak is the lesser evil here.

If Jumpdrive is unusable to get out of the fight alive, there're no benefits for using Jumpdrive compared to that of using cloaks. Whatsoever. Seriously, why waste an ability to move around stealthed to save up 3-7 minutes going to the battlefield by trade lane? Faction ZOIs are not big enough to justify the use of JD, with exception of Outcasts/Corsairs. And in their case, you'll need group jumping.

In addition to that, the required amount of credits and time investment into JD + Hyperspace Scanning mechanics is also incomparable to that of a cloak. Having to scan around 55-60 jumping positions for my 3 jumpers in the beginning of each month was painful enough. Setting up a fleet of hyperspace scanners was quite damn expensive as well.

(06-09-2014, 05:25 PM)Govedo13 Wrote: It is different because jumping is the only chance that battleship still have to run.
Everything under GB now cruises faster then battleship so even the casual transporter can catch up and CD the retreating cruising battleship.

Ohh, okay. So using JD or cloaking in time is the only realistic way for BS to stay alive now, against competent opponents? Lawl, that's cute.


RE: Balance: Unkillable Battleships - Yber - 06-13-2014

You can 1 shot a snub for a single mistake. You can 2 shot a gunboat for a single mistake. You can kill a cruiser if he gets too close and if it's not a high armored one. The second time will kill him either way. You can deflect novas with flaks, which are supposed to be the main counter to battleships.

I don't know how anything about that is underpowered. On a side note, can 5 bombers kill a battleship? More like 5 players can kill 1. Seems okay to me.

Battleships shouldn't "need" to escape. Why? Because they're the most overpowered thing in the game since autoaim was given to everything above bombers. Solo battleships can't be encouraged with higher "survival" abilities because then we'll have LNS/RNC scenarios with battleships/cruisers only all over the game. There's a small amount of anything below cruisers in these fights, and that's because it's encouraged enough. Snubs will get insta killed at any point in time due to missile/razors/secondary spam. Gunboats don't really deal the needed damag/ dont't have the range.

I agree that single battleships are "weak" against higher numbers. That's because if you buff it further it'll be the only flown class in the game alongside transports.

Imo.


RE: Balance: Unkillable Battleships - SnakThree - 06-13-2014

(06-13-2014, 10:40 AM)Knjaz Wrote:
(06-09-2014, 06:21 PM)Snak3 Wrote: Cloak has 4 disadvantages compared to JumpDrive. The only thing Cloak Device is good at is ambushing the crap out of slow or unsuspecting targets while JumpDrive is not able to do the same.

I am pretty sure that cloak is the lesser evil here.

If Jumpdrive is unusable to get out of the fight alive, there're no benefits for using Jumpdrive compared to that of using cloaks. Whatsoever. Seriously, why waste an ability to move around stealthed to save up 3-7 minutes going to the battlefield by trade lane? Faction ZOIs are not big enough to justify the use of JD, with exception of Outcasts/Corsairs. And in their case, you'll need group jumping.

JumpDrive Mk3 is used to escape from fights while using Cloak Mk2 Adv. to escape is almost impossible. And while using JumpDrive you cannot be disrupted, you are not deshielded and you still can use CM to a certain degree.

Please explain me how exactly JumpDrive Mk3 is unusable to get out of fight alive.


RE: Balance: Unkillable Battleships - Knjaz - 06-14-2014

(06-13-2014, 02:04 PM)Snak3 Wrote: JumpDrive Mk3 is used to escape from fights while using Cloak Mk2 Adv. to escape is almost impossible. And while using JumpDrive you cannot be disrupted, you are not deshielded and you still can use CM to a certain degree.

Please explain me how exactly JumpDrive Mk3 is unusable to get out of fight alive.

I was talking about what would happen if such change would get implemented, where JDs can't get used to gtfo from a fight, since that is what most people here are pointing at as a "possible solution".

P.S. will be able to answer Yber later.


RE: Balance: Unkillable Battleships - Omicron - 06-14-2014

(06-13-2014, 01:39 PM)Yber Wrote: You can 1 shot a snub for a single mistake. You can 2 shot a gunboat for a single mistake. You can kill a cruiser if he gets too close and if it's not a high armored one. The second time will kill him either way. You can deflect novas with flaks, which are supposed to be the main counter to battleships.

I don't know how anything about that is underpowered. On a side note, can 5 bombers kill a battleship? More like 5 players can kill 1. Seems okay to me.

Battleships shouldn't "need" to escape. Why? Because they're the most overpowered thing in the game since autoaim was given to everything above bombers. Solo battleships can't be encouraged with higher "survival" abilities because then we'll have LNS/RNC scenarios with battleships/cruisers only all over the game. There's a small amount of anything below cruisers in these fights, and that's because it's encouraged enough. Snubs will get insta killed at any point in time due to missile/razors/secondary spam. Gunboats don't really deal the needed damag/ dont't have the range.

I agree that single battleships are "weak" against higher numbers. That's because if you buff it further it'll be the only flown class in the game alongside transports.

Imo.

Have you actually *ever* flown any capital ship into battle?


RE: Balance: Unkillable Battleships - Yber - 06-14-2014

Liberty dreadnoughts and makos in 86, yes. Pretty succesful in both solo and duo with Guerra (for those who don't know about him he was one of the best at TS without zoom). By succesful I mean rampages of 10-12 people without dying.

As for cruisers, scyllas and stortas.