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+--- Thread: Guard ID's in 4.85 (/showthread.php?tid=12662)
Guard ID's in 4.85 - looqas - 10-22-2008
Interesting, but confusing at the same time.
Could you Kuraine and other admins put a stop to the speculation and post one of the example of 4.85 regular ID and 4.85 guard ID text here (or even better to a completely new thread)? I'm pretty sure that would be the easiest route now.
This explaining and theorizing and speculation has me confused. And the thread is becoming unreadable (like all the 7+ page threads eventually will)
If my suggestions is a no-go, then it I understood correctly from Kuraine's posts.
With Guard ID I mean e.g. Lib Navy guard ID, not zoner or freelancer
Liberty Navy Guard ID
- Anyone can get the ID and purchase a cap ship
- Can fly all ships <--Some Guard IDs will not allow all the ships
- Can escort
- Can not trade
- Can only be bought from Guard systems
- Must stick more to ZOI
- Piracy is forbidden (as it is now) in bigger than GB
- Fulfilling bounty contracts (BHG Core will still be allowed to collect bounties)
- Guard version won't be able to do a lot of the stuff that the regular ID can do <--Needs the most explaining
- Lawful caps (anything bigger than a gunboat) won't be able to demand any contraband except for allied pilots, and the same goes for unlawful caps (again, anything bigger than a gunboat). Neither will be able to trade or collect bounties either.
- Anyone can get and purchase
- Can fly only <GB
- Can escort
- Can trade
- Can collect bounties
Guard ID's in 4.85 - RingoW - 10-22-2008
Don't understand the stress here.
On top of all comes ROLEPLAY. Good roleplay should not be restricted, because this is the essence of a roleplay server. Those ID and ZOI limitations i consider as tools to lower the whoring of pvp and to limit cheap roleplay excusions.
Now what is good rp and what is cheap? There are different opinions i'm sure.
Imho good is, if the player always has faction and story backrounds in mind, involves player factions, making events (must not be big ones), writing stories around (not everyone can, but should compensate it with behaviour when playing on server). Last but most important parts are communication and responsibility towards community.
If you do so i think a lot of limits can be suspended. Not all, but quite a lot.
I'm not happy at all with the ID proposals, but i consider them rather as guides than strict regulations.
At the end common sense of the community might make some parts invalid or add new ones.
So please stop screaming before you have cut in your finger.
AoM
Guard ID's in 4.85 - Orin - 10-22-2008
Quote:So please stop screaming before you have cut in your finger.Indeed, let's just watch the knife slowly fall towards our mutual foot.:lol:
Guard ID's in 4.85 - Akumabito - 10-22-2008
' Wrote:I'm not happy at all with the ID proposals, but i consider them rather as guides than strict regulations.
That won't stop the sanction.
Guard ID's in 4.85 - RingoW - 10-22-2008
Depends on the players roleplay.
AoM
Guard ID's in 4.85 - Zork - 10-22-2008
in the last week i saw many discusions about this new ID's .... can somebody tell me what this new ID's are?
i was in holidays in the last weeks
and in the next 3 weeks i cant play
Guard ID's in 4.85 - farmerman - 10-22-2008
Quote:in the last week i saw many discusions about this new ID's .... can somebody tell me what this new ID's are?
ZORK, here's the proposal post with all the main discussions about ID changes, and it has a link to all the new standard IDs as they currently stand:
http://discoverygc.com/forums/showthread.php?tid=22908
Guard ID's in 4.85 - Jinx - 10-22-2008
in fact - the new IDs say clearly what was a consensus on the server anyway. - players screamed when they saw a rheinland cruiser in new york. - but no rule other than the subjective "its bad roleplay" rule hit there....
now the IDs say that it "should not be done". - that does not mean that a rheinland cruiser must not go to liberty.... - an example is the singleplayer. - the [whoever it was] embassador arrived at new york in a cruiser. - the navy was alert ... mind they were MORE alert that the cruiser was being sabotaged than about the cruiser suddenly opening fire on them..... .
so - most of whats written down in the IDs now is common practice on the server anyway. those that have RP to skip parts of it will do so anyway and won t get any problems. - those that had questionable roleplay before about their ships and stuff will now at least clearly be pointed at "why" they have a questionable roleplay.
of course - a lot of it is still subjective. - but most everything is. - what one player considers a brilliant roleplay - another player considers utter crap. - one player will say his RP is a great example of a special role - another player will read the story and say ... its all just to justify your ship and weapons.
you ll never make everyone happy - but the IDs are meant to point out the most important parts.
for example the zoner part.. they must not fire on anyone but nomads and htose that they wittness to harm zoners. - if such a passage was not added - a zoner player could easily fire on others, too. - who are we to say if its good or bad roleplay or if the faction is meant or not meant to be that way.
now at least - we have it printed down whats the rough guideline. - and zoners will still be able to make a red list of kill-on-sight targets. - why should they not? - if someones reputation is so bad that every zoner knows that he is attacking zoner ships on sight - they will not wait for their shields to be drained by 50% so the self defense rule is in effect... such a person will be a persona non grata ... and will be attacked, even if its against the ID description.
Guard ID's in 4.85 - Akumabito - 10-22-2008
' Wrote:in fact - the new IDs say clearly what was a consensus on the server anyway.
How can it be a consensus on the server when one half of the players were screaming at the other half?
This is a consensus on the forums, that only really represents factions and admins, that is being applied to a largely unaware server.
Wait until this is sprung on the majority of the server and see what the consensus will be.
This ID restriction isn't practiced on the server. Most cap ships do not have guard ID's now, and the obvious response to the ID is "why should I go kill hundreds of NPC's and spend another million credits to do what I am already doing?" because that's all this is, a small inconvenience, but an inconvenience nonetheless that interferes with RP rather than helps it.
So, back to the unresolved issues. What is each ID's ZOI? Since I can point to New York and see outcast NPC's there does that mean I can take a Outcast Dessie in there and whoop it up? If not then what is the definition of a ZOI? Having a base in the system? Wanting to be there? What? Where is the ZOI list for each faction?
How long will we have to get guard ID's for the cap ships? A week? A month? Until the faction leaders have them, then the sanctions roll out?
Will special RP be granted to not get a guard ID on a cap ship or to ignore ZOI? Is this to be a continuation of the two tiered "If you are my buddy and write a couple lines of RP and no one objects you don't need to follow the restrictions" scheme ?
Guard ID's in 4.85 - Jinx - 10-22-2008
well - akumabito...
you have most certainly heard the recent and the older comments about the term "cap-whoring" and the "powertrader" and such established things like general "ooRPness".
of course - most players that ask for restrictions do not generally mean the factions they play themselves - and they don t ask for restrictions that might disrupt their own RP - but a lot of players are VERY quick when it comes to restricting others.
and it is indeed been so that many here on the forum ( for whatever one might think that does actually represent on the server ) have ASKED to restrict - especially capital ships. - of course... mostly they meant specific faction(s) that they considered to be ooRP too much or using too many capital ships. - and so some might be surprised that the improvement of the IDs hit their own faction just the same.
but there was indeed a consensus about some things...
putting capital ships into guards and making a guard reputation necessary was greeted by a vast majority and a lot of positive feedback when such a suggestion was made. - of course ... some players forget that they themselve have to put some work into it now.
furthermore it was asked for putting down the appearence of capital ships alltogether and restrict them to a more limited role. ( yes - a lot of players argued that capital ships equal worse roleplay in most cases ) - so... it does make sense to make it
- harder to get the guard ID
- give strict guidelines about what the guard can do
those things were NOT made up by a single person. - its what older topics asked for. - the fact that it affects all the factions just the same is .... fairness that is applied to what was asked for. its easy to ask for other factions to be restricted - its harder when your own faction gets nerft. - but whenever someone asks for another faction to be nerft, its players that are nerft. - but again... its not spite or anything that has made those IDs.... they are after all just describing what is in effect anyway - even now in 4.84 - under the unclear term of "roleplay".
mind, everyone, no matter if its a playerfaction, a non-playerfactioned player, a special RP player a hardcore player or a casual player - they all have to play by these rules... all the very same.
and i wrote in another reply that every player will most certainly be given enough time to get a guard reputation. - all factions but the zoners can do missions. - the nomads get their ID fixed anyway - and so do other special factions.
about the guard reputation in general - yes, it does involve more work. - the idea behind that is that the player has to be more determined about what he wants to achieve - and that he starts to research more about his faction. ( no, not every player will put more work into his RP and will learn more about the faction he represents - but some might.... )