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+--- Thread: POBs + Mining system = broken mechanic. (/showthread.php?tid=159287)
RE: POBs + Mining system = broken mechanic. - Agetneor - 03-21-2018
POB's in field and near fields only for official mining factions, with house governments permissions, all others POBs in that area should be illegal and be exempt from attack declaration thread and house governments shouldn't even consider such registrations appeals
And increase price of POB building to 100 millions
RE: POBs + Mining system = broken mechanic. - Karlotta - 03-22-2018
(03-21-2018, 09:00 PM)Jack_Henderson Wrote:(03-21-2018, 08:39 PM)Darkseid667 Wrote: But even most of the transports make a coffee break for the 4-6 minutes it takes to fill a 5k transport, so they are no big help either.
Then more traders need to return with their coffee and look at the "you are dead" screen. Disco is best when it is not played in afk-mode because in that mode there never is any roleplay. It's cut down to minimum and that's what hurts Disco.
We did some combat mining a few days ago with enemies logged in the same system. It was thrilling. Tense. It demanded coordination. Resulted in a fight eventually. And felt like a "good" Disco day, even though a lot of peeps on my side exploded.
But compared to "I played. Nothing happened", it was amazing!
We want more "amazing", less "meh... nothing..."
And therefore POBs need placement rules and mining needs changes. Both it seems is being worked on.
A change that would tackle several of the problems around mining (afk-waiting haulers, multiple 0-personality miners, necessity for noobs to make a mining char instead of sticking with his less anonymous original fighter) would be this:
1. Remove indy miner ID completely, and give Freelancer ID + fighter turret mining laser mining bonus, preferably used in rear mounted turret slots in the regular VHFs.
2. Reduce the bonus of small mining ships to be only a bit above that of rear-mounted Freelancer mining lasers, and barely above Hegemon. That's best done by giving mining ships 2 turret slots that shoot in the same direction instead of one (or just link bonus to the ID and number of lasers and not the ship) like regular fighters, and the rest normal guns only. That way they're more specialized as a miner escort than before, but a bit more efficient at mining than "regular" Freelance-noobs that can also mine by just getting mining turret.
Result:
The most efficient combination for mining is now no longer "afk hauler + light miner" but "hegemon + light miner", followed by "hegemon + noob with mining laser", where the hegemon delivers the ore to a POB 20 k away (during which the little guy can keep mining and dumps it in space).
5k Haulers come into the equation when the buy from POBs to sell at far away NPC bases.
Any idea who's doing the mining update? Maybe he should comment here.
RE: POBs + Mining system = broken mechanic. - Thyrzul - 03-22-2018
What's wrong with transports transporting goods now? Are you really talking about "afk haulers" at a mere 20k distance?
I remember a good while ago, maybe even years ago, someone significantly more into the mining business than I am (it's not that hard though) telling me a good mining operation balances miner and transport numbers in a way that miners can mine at least as much as a transport can carry until the next one comes, and there is no idle waiting time. It's not like that idea needed any rebalance of guns, slots, bonuses though, just organization, coordination and numbers. I don't recall who the dude was, maybe someone from GMS who's not Denis, but I'm not sure. Just saying, feel free to disagree with me though.
I remember a good while ago, maybe even years ago, someone significantly more into the mining business than I am (it's not that hard though) telling me a good mining operation balances miner and transport numbers in a way that miners can mine at least as much as a transport can carry until the next one comes, and there is no idle waiting time. It's not like that idea needed any rebalance of guns, slots, bonuses though, just organization, coordination and numbers. I don't recall who the dude was, maybe someone from GMS who's not Denis, but I'm not sure. Just saying, feel free to disagree with me though.
RE: POBs + Mining system = broken mechanic. - Karlotta - 03-22-2018
(03-22-2018, 12:58 AM)Thyrzul Wrote:What's wrong with transports transporting goods now? Are you really talking about "afk haulers" at a mere 20k distance?
I said "afk-waiting hauler", and meant haulers that just wait and do nothing while a miner mines for them. Haulers would still transport the ore from POB to NPCs bases. They could also tractor in ore if they want, although that makes them more vulnerable for pirates.
The overall goal is to encourage Hegemon + noob with Freelancer ID combos for mining, and part of that is to also reduce light miner bonus so the Freelancer ID are a not totally useless alternative to them.
RE: POBs + Mining system = broken mechanic. - LaWey - 03-22-2018
We use for filling 30k out of field PoB the bunch of miner freighter and transport. Miner just shjota rocks, hauler just fly cyrcle route and grab ore, like quarry dumper.
RE: POBs + Mining system = broken mechanic. - The.Outlaw.Star - 03-22-2018
I agree with you Spazzy on most of what was said so i would like to insert my comments below.
1. We outright forbid making POBs an X distance from any given mining field, regardless of core level. Any existing POB is either moved or refunded to the owner/s. and remove the attack deceleration requirements from bases inside of mining fields, allowing anyone to destroy such new bases on a whim.
so I put 1 and 2 together bc think about it, you remove attack dec requirements and the players will do the admins work for them *winks
So i just thought of something, you talk about player/RP interaction or Lack-there-of and yet we have things like Conn, and the removal of Jump trading. I would like to suggest we remove conn and force those players to get involved Sirius wide or at least in the Game somewhere and not conn. Also, Please please bring back jump trading! This feature got many involved and active, and dont tell me you avoid piracy bc i remember plenty of times our party getting crashed by unwanted guest!
RE: POBs + Mining system = broken mechanic. - Karlotta - 03-22-2018
(03-15-2018, 04:15 AM)The.Outlaw.Star Wrote: I have plenty of experience in these matters revolving around PoB's prob more than 95% of you. You dont see me complaining or asking for changes or re-works you know why? bc the system works great! To be honest i didnt even read your wall of text bc I've seen it all before many many times before. so dont get mad at me for telling you all how to properly manage a PoB. ok? cool
Everyone's number one problem is the lack of Diplomacy with surrounding factions. You cant build something and thats it, there is a lot more than just the structure floating in space that you feed supplies to! you have to make sure everyone is happy or at least paid off and do some darn forum RP! its pathetic the lack of RP most of these bases have so its no wonder no one takes em serious.
Lack of diplomacy leads to your base blowing up! like lets be real you build a base in hostile territory and expect it not to get attacked by opposing faction? *laughs* use your head and always be prepared for the consequences.
Nothing is wrong with PoBs I wouldnt change a thing I think the Devs have done a great job implementing this feature and I thank you all very much.
Side note: you all wanna fix something in Disco then remove Conn!
(03-22-2018, 02:29 AM)The.Outlaw.Star Wrote: I agree with you Spazzy on most of what was said so i would like to insert my comments below.
1. We outright forbid making POBs an X distance from any given mining field, regardless of core level. Any existing POB is either moved or refunded to the owner/s. and remove the attack deceleration requirements from bases inside of mining fields, allowing anyone to destroy such new bases on a whim.
so I put 1 and 2 together bc think about it, you remove attack dec requirements and the players will do the admins work for them *winks
What caused your change of heart?
RE: POBs + Mining system = broken mechanic. - The.Outlaw.Star - 03-22-2018
(03-22-2018, 02:34 AM)Karlotta Wrote:(03-15-2018, 04:15 AM)The.Outlaw.Star Wrote: I have plenty of experience in these matters revolving around PoB's prob more than 95% of you. You dont see me complaining or asking for changes or re-works you know why? bc the system works great! To be honest i didnt even read your wall of text bc I've seen it all before many many times before. so dont get mad at me for telling you all how to properly manage a PoB. ok? cool
Everyone's number one problem is the lack of Diplomacy with surrounding factions. You cant build something and thats it, there is a lot more than just the structure floating in space that you feed supplies to! you have to make sure everyone is happy or at least paid off and do some darn forum RP! its pathetic the lack of RP most of these bases have so its no wonder no one takes em serious.
Lack of diplomacy leads to your base blowing up! like lets be real you build a base in hostile territory and expect it not to get attacked by opposing faction? *laughs* use your head and always be prepared for the consequences.
Nothing is wrong with PoBs I wouldnt change a thing I think the Devs have done a great job implementing this feature and I thank you all very much.
Side note: you all wanna fix something in Disco then remove Conn!
(03-22-2018, 02:29 AM)The.Outlaw.Star Wrote: I agree with you Spazzy on most of what was said so i would like to insert my comments below.
1. We outright forbid making POBs an X distance from any given mining field, regardless of core level. Any existing POB is either moved or refunded to the owner/s. and remove the attack deceleration requirements from bases inside of mining fields, allowing anyone to destroy such new bases on a whim.
so I put 1 and 2 together bc think about it, you remove attack dec requirements and the players will do the admins work for them *winks
What caused your change of heart?
TBH I didnt even know they removed that rule about not building near Mine fieldsand Bases i guess it explains why so many have popped up and nothing being done. Not sure if thats what you were insinuating by your comment?
RE: POBs + Mining system = broken mechanic. - Karlotta - 03-22-2018
I wasn't insinuating anything, I was just wondering what made you flip opinion diametrically within one week.
Also not sure what you're talking about with "TBH I didnt even know they removed that rule about not building near Mine fieldsand Bases i guess it explains why so many have popped up and nothing being done."
I dont think any such rule was removed.
RE: POBs + Mining system = broken mechanic. - The.Outlaw.Star - 03-22-2018
He says it in the first thread.
People are placing core 1 POBs in every field in the game now, ever since the removal of the rule regarding POB construction.
All I know is people are building them everywhere i thought there was already a rule that you couldnt build in fields, near holes, and bases. Not sure i havent looked at some rules in years man so i dont know *smiles*
Also I totally see the change in player activity due to PoBs being in mine fields. Ok ok take this for example, That base in kansas in the copper field! I tried for weeks to get ppl to trade things with me and you know what I got all week? "Cant mining copper in Liberty" it was dead everywhere else *sadface* if that base wasnt there someone would have at least needed my help to mine or haul. Thats just one im throwing out there.