VEX06/26/2019
I'm going to present them here
Attachment file type: document
ID_lines.txt
3.54 KB
It's too long, but it includes many different IDs, so give it a read and get back to me here

Immo2306/26/2019
Will have a look when Im back from the gym :ok_hand:

Aristaan06/26/2019
Significantly hampers the community-based gameplay by limiting each to their own stations. May as well call IRG a inter-house faction with that. I see the intention, but I just dont see why this would even incentivize being official if it means you go from having basically limitless ZoI, to essentially less - also “assist with Zoner regulations” basically states a regular zoner to zoner assist line with extra steps. Indie ID still has the previous issues, and this all implies there’s a level of activity in this game that there actually isnt. The ideal is to give each their autonomy - that means letting them function on their own, not whether or not OSI (nicknamed ‘Daddy’ for good reason) is present. This also has a huge issue of ship choice, since OSI is so rarely flying anything other than whales. While administration of bases is fair under the titled bases, excluding participation on that spread is completely unfair.
I believe it’s really important that the engagement lines are specific to the Zoner IFF for proper use of FR5 to engage hostile regardless of where they are. People can now play hookie with the 10k zone even harder than before, where they can assemble at 10001 meters before ganking the people on the Freeport. I want to move in a positive direction, not in a backward one. The point of this chat was to make our interests clear, mainly that we want to play the damn game with a little autonomy and clarity, and without the requirement of being in a specific location. The Zoner community is loosely knit, but still combines on certain values. The point of system-wide law enforcement and engagement was to eliminate the issue of clearly hostile entities dancing around clearly in visual range. If the current issues cant be resolved, then it may just be better to actually give control of the laws to the 1iC’s and properly rename the legal structure on the forums and on the ID’s. The indie ID needs to be brought in line with the official ID, in some advantage or another, since it’s only been continuously losing lines over time. We’ve made Zoners able to attack for any reason system wide in the past, and it’s only made for better circumstances (49 and Delta) where activity was increased, and freedom accommodated. This is a roleplay server, and Im trying to to amend the roleplay lapses within our roles. CoF is dead, something new has to take its place, and the ID makes for a vulnerable situation at every turn, because we’re not allowed to respond to hostilities at all proactively.

Immo2306/26/2019
As much as I personally am still mixed on this, I prefer Aristaans way. Despite what my own faction is set up to do, it makes sense that Zoners can look after themselves. After all, that's one of the reasons why they are as such in the lore. It's also like Aristaan said, a cool gameplay loop that allows more independence and more power to the Zoner community, from both an in game and roleplay sense... Naturally, not sure how much of a voice I really have, given I'm not an OFL

VEX06/26/2019
I'll wait for everybody to leave comments, then I leave my thoughts

Aristaan06/26/2019
I dont want to shoot everything, I just want to shoot the things that make sense to shoot in the areas it makes sense (where we are/systems with Zoner bases) as it REALLY doesnt make sense that we’d be limited to 10k around a station. Zoners are forced to travel - routes arent optimized with lanes and gates, supplies/materials arent always close by, but we’re fairly good at what we do. We don’t (within roleplay) stand at a station for all eternity. Populations in the Zoner community is slim, but this doesnt have to be represented with location limitation. I believe the behavior we see from Zoners is completely symptomatic of the limitations Zoners have. They sit on stations because it’s advantageous, and about all you can do in-game. Yes that’s also a symptom of the laws we’ve adopted, however, it’s something we cant actually change at the moment. As for indies, the mindless Juggernauts flying around will always be a thing. It happens to any faction with a heavy battleship, the Colony ship just has the biggest number. I still think the Colony ship should be ID locked, but that’s a different issue.

If we want to encourage quality behavior, activity, and overall interaction, we need to give individuals the freedom to play the faction properly, and treat behavioral standards as all others - through GM/moderator oversight.
The Zoners have been forced to be pacifists, but that should be up to the factions to decide how they’re received. Put the diplomatic power back into the player’s hands, allow the factions the shape their diplomacy. Just because we have the NFZ doesnt mean we should be shaped by it. Zoners are a group of individuals - like Freelancers who have a common thread in the desire to be deregulated - yet beyond that, we’re regulated into a way that is “balanced.” If I had it my way, I’d ID lock the Colony ship and Carrier, and make the ID very loose in their rights outside of house sovereign space. They’re still civil, but they do things to the fringes of good morality. Experimental tech, work regulations that are shaky, loose safety standards, no discrimination on clientele background, etc. we do what we want outside of the rules, but we obviously cant be uncivilized, otherwise we’ll just destroy everything we’ve built.
Let the Zoners be Zoners.
It’s about Freedom and Liberty, in the Zoner community. Equality of opportunity, not outcome. We reach for the stars, and land among them, and in the end it’s about being a meaningful part of a community of like-minded individuals. They may group up, form coalitions, confederations, incorporate, make businesses, or otherwise. In the end, they’re just trying to make a living without being limited by a government. Sovereign citizens. One moment they’re at the helm of a billion credit organization, the next they dont exist - faded away into the depths of space.
Let each choose for themselves - from an ID line perspective, they’re basically a bunch of traders that magically make capital ships, rather than working together to facilitate life beyond the houses. The Colony ship is a vessel that is uniquely equipped to be a mobile hub. The carrier, while not designed for direct combat, is designed to be a service center on the move. The Q-ship is a retrofitted transport designed for combat, and the Whale and Osprey facilitate specialized trade. Id even go to say the Colony ship should be heavily equipped to take care of itself, and the Whale increased in speed, while becoming even more fragile. I believe from a fundamental level, that the Zoners need to be reworked, because the outcome is not ideal.

Immo2306/26/2019
Okay, the more work I'm doing on my own faction, I want to say this: If people want to ENFORCE a NFZ, doesn't it make more sense for said person from an iRP perspective to join OSI, IRG or even Velvet?

The more I'm specializing Velvet as a security/military wing of the Zoners given everything that's happened in the past, it doesn't seem sensical for someone in those times to not want to be a part of one of those forces should the need arise.

Vex, I sent you the ID lines, and they're on the about. It fits PERFECTLY for what's being discussed.

Aristaan06/26/2019
Like I said, let them have some autonomy. It makes sense, but it doesnt work under the ID. IRG has its security, hired and otherwise, they fly Zoner flags and thus Zoner ID. They cant be proactive in any way, regardless of the stake. We have to react to all hostilities - Wild and Commune included.

Aristaan06/26/2019
The purpose of ZoI is to limit the area of the rights of factions to the areas that makes sense. Right now, basically all meaningful ZoI for all Zoner factions is 10-15k away from Zoner stations. Every Zoner may at any point use any station, and contribute to its well-being. If your average Zoner encountered a Nomad, it would be engaged regardless of where it was, as long as the Zoner would at least have a relatively high chance to win. This would also be true for known terrorist threats. What Zoners believe are or are not known threats is up to debate, and is between official factions any time we suggest and FR5. But sometimes there’s mutual agreement on what is, in the case of Commune, and several individuals. In this case, Zoners should 100% be allowed to deal with these threats proactively, because they would. You dont let them group up, you dont let them gain strength and resources, you end it there and then, so it doesnt become a bigger problem. That being said, having freedom to do that everywhere might be overkill, or so I thought, so limiting that to systems where Zoner bases exist makes sense, since there’s a probable chance of being in the Area as well as acting in the interest if the greater parties and base. That’s why I worded the line as I did. But from a fundamental level, the Zoner ID is currently a Freelancer ID with caps, and no reason/ability to use them.

Immo2306/26/2019
Actually, RP and thematically, Zoner and FL ID are very different. Just that theres no real explanation of why they are different. Got a load of ideas on this, hopefully remember them when I wake up

Mad John06/26/2019
Is there a good reason to divide up space (Freeports) between the IRG and OSI? As they are both Zoner factions I would have thought that either faction would be entitled to enforce Zoner laws anywhere (at any Freeport). In game it becomes a bit confusing too unless you know these faction differences inside out, and not many other people outside the OSI and IRG factions will learn/remember this, my feeling is that it becomes too complex. If a ship is hostile to the Zoners my thoughts are that it is hostile to all Zoners and and could be engaged by any Zoner within any Zoner NFZ...... My two Cents worth and perhaps a bit old school, but hey....