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+--- Thread: ADMIN NOTICE : OFFICIAL FACTION RIGHTS (/showthread.php?tid=21611)
ADMIN NOTICE : OFFICIAL FACTION RIGHTS - pipboy - 06-10-2009
' Wrote:I am also a little concerned about allowing official factions to restrict access to the system that they own. It seems like that means the can effectively restrict access to any ship sold exclusively in that system. I can't say I support that.
If you're an official faction and you own a system right now, it's yours. You can restrict whoever you want going in there. That is nothing new. You can even choose whether or not to make it a guard system. Basically, within set guidelines created by Igiss, you can do whatever you want with your shiny new system when you buy it.
ADMIN NOTICE : OFFICIAL FACTION RIGHTS - tazuras - 06-10-2009
' Wrote:If you're an official faction and you own a system right now, it's yours. You can restrict whoever you want going in there. That is nothing new. You can even choose whether or not to make it a guard system. Basically, within set guidelines created by Igiss, you can do whatever you want with your shiny new system when you buy it.
I thought i saw a post somewhere in green that said you couldnt restrict a properly tagged and ID'd player from entering to buy a ship, could be wrong though.
But really you re not addressing my main point, you think it should be allowed for official factions to control who can and cannot buy ships their NPC faction controls?
ADMIN NOTICE : OFFICIAL FACTION RIGHTS - n00bl3t - 06-10-2009
' Wrote:I don't like you, I admit that bias. And I also dislike a large number of other independents, especially after getting the Arrow I was setting up shot at by a destroyer and, later, a gunship for no reason whatsoever.
I don't like being insulted, either.
It's not brown-nosing if I actually agree with them, though I'll forgive you for not knowing the difference. You don't often agree with anyone.
But, fine. You want a battleship? I don't like you. I've said that. There's a good chance no one on the Council likes you. But I'd still vote to give you a chance - and yes, you can note that if you want and hold me to it. Seriously. Apply for one if you want.
Everyone has a bias. You trust the admins to put theirs aside, apparently. They're not the only ones capable of it.
Well, uh, I do not know what to say to that. Really does not change anything.
No-one does, but it is the truth. When you see an independent do you look at them and wonder what RP they have, or wonder how long it will take them to get sanctioned?
Frankly, I have the right to disagree and I use it well. Also, your "agreeing" as you put it has made you the only dependent independent on the council. Pure coincidence I am sure.
No-one on the council does like me.
If I apply for a ship it will be to the Admins, either that or I will buy it within the next 48 hours.
I do not trust them all. The same way I do not trust all factions. Some has proven they are worthy of being given power, some have proven why they should be dipped in concrete and dumped in the middle of the Atlantic.
ADMIN NOTICE : OFFICIAL FACTION RIGHTS - pipboy - 06-10-2009
' Wrote:I thought i saw a post somewhere in green that said you couldnt restrict a properly tagged and ID'd player from entering to buy a ship, could be wrong though.
But really you re not addressing my main point, you think it should be allowed for official factions to control who can and cannot buy ships their NPC faction controls?
I could be wrong on that first part as well... If so then oops, sorry. That was just my understanding.
Second point, I'm not totally sure. That's kind of the point of this thread though right? To determine the answer to that question? I hadn't posted anything in here cause I don't really no what to say. I was all for it, but Xoria did bring up some interesting points. Honestly I think trust is an issue in this matter. I for the most part trust just about every official faction leader in Disco. The crappy stupid ones almost always lead factions that die out in a very short amount of time. The battleship owning factions as far as I can remember at the moment all have factions who have been around for quite a long time and I think have proven their ability to RP and be a good leader.
ADMIN NOTICE : OFFICIAL FACTION RIGHTS - worldstrider - 06-10-2009
One comment I forgot to make...this isn't about controlling battleships...its about controlling role play. That's what's (not) being voted on here. Phrase it this way: "Should factions be able to control other player's role play?"--that's all this is about.
ADMIN NOTICE : OFFICIAL FACTION RIGHTS - Cyberanson - 06-10-2009
' Wrote:"Should factions be able to control other player's role play?"They should definetly not, as this is the point what makes every character unique and what defines this server. On the other hand the role play should stick to certain boundaries, which should be defined by factions and the admins.
ADMIN NOTICE : OFFICIAL FACTION RIGHTS - Dieter Schprokets - 06-10-2009
It was predicted that the battleship licence right would be the most controversial.
Quote:In Sirius, they came first for the liners, And I didnt speak up because I didn't own a liner;
And then they came for the battleships, And I didnt speak up because I didn't own a battleship;
And then they came for the destroyers, And I didnt speak up because I didn't own a destroyer;
And then... they came for me... And by that time there was no one left to speak up.
This is a bit melodramatic. In reality, this proposal is only about those ships that require a battleship licence. I don't know how control of other ships is even practical. And I don't think its desirable to go that far.
Xoria, if you told me there was a problem with badly played Spyglasses running rampant in Vespucci, Cortez and Magellan, Id take your word for it. Other people tell you there are problems elsewhere. Can you not take their word for it? You also see the same sanction reports other Admins do.
Your critique of the battleship licencing idea is predicated on 2 assumptions:
1) Official Factions will fail to objectively evaluate the licence application.
2) If the Official Factions do fail to objectively evaluate the licence application, the harried Admins will be too busy, and disinterested to intervene.
Those assumptions are pessimistic.
I for one am optimistic that the opinions of faction leaders about the ability of a player to RP well, and understand the rules, will be sound. This is not rocket science. A good application for a battleship licence would demonstrate a good understanding of the faction diplomacy and RP, an interesting backstory for the vessel, and a good understanding of the server rules.
Precisely the same sort of thing official factions look at in prospective new members, regularly, when they assess those prospective members through their recruitment process.
Everyone knows what a poor application would look like. I want to get a battleship because I want to pwn piratz. It will be objectively and demonstrably poor.
You speak of Admins having to wade through evidence of unfairness, which likely won't be available anyway, because it will all be buried in secret Skype chats, etc. That is wrong. The only "evidence" needing review will be a perfectly good application which got denied anyway, for no good reason. That's it.
We have application processes for all sorts of things here.
-Want to join an official faction? You have to apply.
-Want to start an official faction? You have to apply.
-Want to buy a system? You have to apply.
-Want a terrorist ID? You have to apply.
So now, you want to fly a battleship? You have to apply. That's all there is to the proposal, in a nutshell.
I have said this before, and I'll say it again. I am not worried about this proposal not "working", in the sense of keeping bad players out of battleships.
I AM worried about it being divisive, and this thread is partially meant to measure that. So please keep it coming, but could all concerned just watch the temperature?
I have said in the Admin forums and still believe that Right Number 5 should be subjected to a community vote, and only implemented if it got very strong backing. In my opinion, 60% in favour wouldn't be enough. Nor likely 70%. Would have to be very strong indeed.
Democracy shouldn't be about 2 wolves and a sheep voting on what to have for dinner. I respect the opinions of those who have posted their disagreement with rule 5.
But what I would like to see is those people suggest another alternative.
For instance, I've seen a few "The Official Factions should have the power to remove battleship licences from abusive players." We have that now, in the form of the "harming server gameplay" rule. But it's weak in the sense that it's hard to file a sanction report with evidence of that.
That suggestion is about better methods of reporting abuse rather than restricting people. I'm all for that, if we can firm it up somehow.
In other words, if not Right 5, then what other ideas are out there?
ADMIN NOTICE : OFFICIAL FACTION RIGHTS - n00bl3t - 06-10-2009
With right five, does the faction decide whether it's members get to fly a battleship?
(That is, to say, it regulates itself?)
ADMIN NOTICE : OFFICIAL FACTION RIGHTS - Dieter Schprokets - 06-10-2009
' Wrote:With right five, does the faction decide whether it's members get to fly a battleship?
(That is, to say, it regulates itself?)
Most already do that. You need a high enough rank.
ADMIN NOTICE : OFFICIAL FACTION RIGHTS - Cyberanson - 06-10-2009
' Wrote:With right five, does the faction decide whether it's members get to fly a battleship?This is a circumstance, which is enforced already. (At least within the RM, the LN and so on,) It wouldn't make sense at all, when your new recruits start off with a cruiser or a battleship. With your dedication for the faction you will deserve your battleship one day, if you want to. I for my part have to say, that I got used to fly in a VHF/bomber, so I feel no need for acquiring a battleship. I think this is a development, which can be confirmed by many of my comrades.
I personally like the idea of free to get battleships, which licenses can be removed after the commander behaved unappropriate. This would even prevent existing battleships from being grandfathered.