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+---- Thread: revision of the ZONERS faction - to avoid yearly discussions (/showthread.php?tid=110566)
RE: revision of the ZONERS faction - to avoid yearly discussions - Zen_Mechanics - 01-22-2014
(01-22-2014, 11:43 AM)Aazalot Wrote: I agree with alot o what summer has said.
Think about what the Zoners are all about, its about living in the more remote parts of the galaxy, surviving the harsher parts of the systems. To get away from politics and house rule.
This would mean that Ships, like the neph, would for the most part be Home vessels, ships with countless many familys living on it. Its not made to go into battle, its made to protect these people. The corvo is the same, its a research vessel, maybe used to locate ideal areas to build Freeports and act as scout ships for the larger nephs and Carriers.
So make the ships about defense and escape, if anything make them better at taking on bombers. Make the ships about keeping out of danger rather then getting into it.
The fact is even if the Zoner Rp has changed, the Lore is still there, Zoners are trying to keep away from house struggles and live in the more dangerous parts of space, and despite claims from Tel about how diplomacy doesnt exist, i think you will find it does. Thats why The Order and other such organisations havent attack any of the other Zoner Factions who use Diplomacy.
If a Zoner faction wants to have bigger firepower, then it should use the firepower built by others.
One other suggestion i do have is making a new fighter to compliment the Osprey mk2. a Bomber version and call it the vulture.
Diplomacy is a human's way to keep his nukes intact and work out on some agreements, i'd love to see that diplomacy once the outcasts declare war on us for supplying the order, or corsairs?. They dont, but they can, so diplomacy is an illusion, hence, it doesn't exist in discovery.
Diplomacy is man-made, that should raise a few questions by now.
Also, i didnt say its not used, i said it doesn't exist, but thats the word we like to describe this talking proccess. Eventully, it will fail, who knows when, but the fact that theres the risk of failure should atleast be an ample reason to keep one cap to the zoners. Stripping zoners from a cap not only opens a door for anyone to kill us, but it wont make sense anymore. You might live in omega-49 where theres some sort of "order" - but zoners in the omicrons have nomads to deal with, and the ever-increasing danger of corsairs. Tweaking caps sounds better than stripping, so u wont get my vote on that removal, but im open minded about the tweaks. However, Cap is a cap, not a supertransport, just to make it clear.
RE: revision of the ZONERS faction - to avoid yearly discussions - Highland Laddie - 01-22-2014
Ideally....Zoner diplomacy in keeping Corsairs at bay would be to stop supplying them with food and goods that they otherwise cannot get sufficiently through piracy.
Unfortunately, this never seems to play out inRP, since via game mechanic limitations, Corsairs don't have to pretend they are starving.
I guess what I'm getting at is it seems the RP diplomatic power that Zoners actually wield isn't really enforceable, or is chosen not to be enforced by the Zoner groups, who would rather.enforce it themselves via their capships power instead,.since that can be done inRP or ooRP.
As for Zoner needs to combat Nomad Marduks....this is essentially the RP role the Order is there to do.
RE: revision of the ZONERS faction - to avoid yearly discussions - puppytaste - 01-22-2014
You know I just realized that by its very name, this was a thread to prevent the so called 'yearly zoner QQ fest' and yet it has done the absolute opposite. Way to go.
RE: revision of the ZONERS faction - to avoid yearly discussions - chase.way - 01-22-2014
Option 2.
I think this would still make Zoners interesting to people who want to RP big ships, making them harder to kill, and weaker to attack is a great way to balance their inRP behavior. If apparently players can't do so by themselves.
I wouldn't just limit it to transports, but as zoners are people who trade a lot, and trough harsh territories, I wouldn't mind seeing some stronger zoner transports as well, but without excluding caps.
RE: revision of the ZONERS faction - to avoid yearly discussions - puppytaste - 01-22-2014
Of course you could expect 'Q' to say that....
RE: revision of the ZONERS faction - to avoid yearly discussions - Doc Holliday - 01-22-2014
I've been reading through this thread and I see little that is new so, take it from someone who is a devoted Zoner for a few reasons that I won't get into.
-People say the Zoners shouldn't have cap ships. It has been said that it is because of them that Zoners are on occasion being harassed by the Corsairs or other factions. The three I have are Med Force ships and armed for defense only. I'm blessed to have never fired a shot with any of them in anger and hope that it stays that way. Anyway, my feeling is that if the Zoners disarmed, the Zoners as a people would cease to exist and become little more than slaves to their occupiers who, since there would be no resistance, would probably never leave. I mean, why should they? They have what they want and no one will force them out.
Quote:Ideally....Zoner diplomacy in keeping Corsairs at bay would be to stop supplying them with food and goods that they otherwise cannot get sufficiently through piracy.This has been RP'd before. When the Zoners were pressured, they decided to stop shipping food. What was the Corsair response? Getting other friendlies to do it, namely, Hogosha, Junkers and even some RP with the Farmer's Alliance.
Unfortunately, this never seems to play out inRP, since via game mechanic limitations, Corsairs don't have to pretend they are starving.
My point? They'll get it if they want it....from somewhere to include via piracy.
-It is said that diplomacy doesn't exist. If that's the case then my character doesn't either. Doc Holliday is more than a doctor, he has an established lore here in Disco as a diplomat. Veteran Corsairs, SCRA and others know this. That said, the Council of Zoners and the old Zoner Alliance never existed. Those were the two ill fated attempts at a central Zoner government.
And people got their way with that. Most of the Zoners are now small factions (TAZ, Pheonix, OSI) or small individuals, just like the player base wanted, each having it's own problems, friends, diplomacy and yes, even enemies.
-People have said that Zoners MUST have enemies! I say B.S.!!! If the Outcasts, Corsairs, Mollies, house militaries and others don't have enough people to shoot at already, I feel sorry for you. Zoners left the houses to be free and through afore mentioned diplomacy with groups that house authorities deem "undesireable," they have been relatively successful. Sure, a little food here and some consumer goods there keep rumblings to a minimum to include that occasional credit or two.
Yes, there are a lot of players who don't have a clue as to RP a Zoner. They fly cap ships in house space and/or instigate trouble. I've even seen a Zoner pirate which IMO is a total oxymoron.
In short, if you are more of the PVP type, DON'T play a Zoner. Zoners are the hardest to RP since you need to be good at it.
RE: revision of the ZONERS faction - to avoid yearly discussions - RedEclipse - 01-22-2014
Doc, the problem is newb won't listen you/couldn't read what we've wrote in this thread. So that's why idea to restrict caps to official factions/SRP sounds very reasonable, just like other factions, which required kind of different RP. If you want to RP with it? Fill a SRP or join to some official faction, show that your RP worth to fly it. I don't know why admins/devs against it.
Nerfing ships wouldn't do much result, because as newb flying some house caps and he's facing with restrictions - cannot leave house space and etc, while zoner got advantage, technically you can fly everywhere. So it's starting point. Turning Zoners into trade faction - is totally wrong and doesn't reflect whole Zoner RP.
RE: revision of the ZONERS faction - to avoid yearly discussions - Mímir - 01-22-2014
i just want to reiterate for the umptieth time that the problem as I see it - and from what I can gather from a lot of other posts in thread - is the existence of these poorly accounted for zoner caps altogether.
i wouldnt mind zoners having them (i could keep mine, yay), but it should come at a cost. i think most players can see the unreasonable and unrealistic in a supposedly über-neutral and non-aggressive and non-centered faction of people opting out on civilization and politics fielding capital ships of that magnitude, and that is what needs addressing, be it via fixing the shipline or adding lore and diplomatic consequences to keeping the fleet; I really don't care. But a fix is needed.
you can go on and on about indies and how they misbehave, but to me at least that's not really the issue at all.
RE: revision of the ZONERS faction - to avoid yearly discussions - Spud - 01-22-2014
(01-22-2014, 04:25 PM)Mímir Wrote: who hates what?
Zoners are worst haters cause they hate other zoners too!
RE: revision of the ZONERS faction - to avoid yearly discussions - Omicron - 01-22-2014
(01-22-2014, 04:41 PM)Tel-Aviv Wrote: Stripping zoners from a cap not only opens a door for anyone to kill us, but it wont make sense anymore.
I say, your caps are making you easier and bigger targets than you could've been. If it weren't for your bases and caps, ZA would be pretty much ignored for the most reasons everyone involved wanted to kill you for.
(01-22-2014, 04:41 PM)Tel-Aviv Wrote: but zoners in the omicrons have nomads to deal with
Guess what, The Order.