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+--- Thread: Zoners (/showthread.php?tid=150497)
RE: Zoners - Toris (Old Account) - 05-23-2017
(05-23-2017, 09:42 PM)Arioch Wrote: (...) I do believe though that it is entirely reasonable for there to be some sort of defensive ships than can ward off attackers, in the form of a cruiser or what not. But purely for defensive purposes, and not outright offensives. (...)
If we are on that, I really like one idea I came across in the past in which all Zoners ships were more transport-like, perhaps from 2014. However, as far as I remember the community voted for staying things as they are. Can't find the exact ship now.
I think what now-civilian Corvo is could be the finest example which way Zoner ships may go.
RE: Zoners - HassLHoFF™ - 05-23-2017
(05-23-2017, 09:44 PM)Birb Wrote:(05-23-2017, 09:42 PM)Arioch Wrote: (...) I do believe though that it is entirely reasonable for there to be some sort of defensive ships than can ward off attackers, in the form of a cruiser or what not. But purely for defensive purposes, and not outright offensives. (...)
If we are on that, I really like one idea I came across in the past in which all Zoners ships were more transport-like, perhaps from 2014. However, as far as I remember the community voted for staying things as they are. Can't find the exact ship now.
I think what now-civilian Corvo is could be the finest example which way Zoner ships may go.
True it was rather in regards of a voting that "retrofitted" the Cap line with transport turrets as I remember correct and replacing the models to a better fitting one. Still sad that these were declined by the official factions.
![[Image: nephilim_by_sjrarj-d75se24.png]](http://orig00.deviantart.net/f801/f/2014/040/f/5/nephilim_by_sjrarj-d75se24.png)
Nephelim replacement
![[Image: deep_sleep_liner_by_sjrarj-d73tybs.png]](http://orig13.deviantart.net/d451/f/2014/026/7/e/deep_sleep_liner_by_sjrarj-d73tybs.png)
Aquilon replacement
![[Image: assault_transport_by_sjrarj-d75ssqh.png]](http://orig05.deviantart.net/6ce6/f/2014/040/1/7/assault_transport_by_sjrarj-d75ssqh.png)
Fearless replacement
RE: Zoners - Arioch - 05-23-2017
(05-23-2017, 09:44 PM)Birb Wrote: If we are on that, I really like one idea I came across in the past in which all Zoners ships were more transport-like, perhaps from 2014. However, as far as I remember the community voted for staying things as they are. Can't find the exact ship now.
In a way. Really, it comes down to this: Zoners are very diverse, but they are unified in their thinking that they want to be left alone, they want to be free from the controlling, oppressive/corrupt Houses, and since they aren't a military force, they deal in negotiations and diplomacy rather than military actions. That's it. That's Zoner lore. From that, you can go any number of ways. So a group of people entrusted to keep the safety and well-being of people on Freeports and such are entirely within Zner lore to come together and have meetings to discuss how things are going, if one station needs supplies from another Zoner station, and talks about if there has been any danger, and if that danger could potentially spread to other installations. THAT is what the CoF is, or what it should be.
tl;dr - The CoF are Zoner groups who came together and told Sirius "Don't be dicks in or around Freeports, and we'll get along fine".
RE: Zoners - MotokoSusu - 05-23-2017
i will sit and watch how things go with this before i take any actions with that registry . i am suspicious of anything that is packaged as change you want to regulate freeports that is fine as long as it goes that far and stops because if at some point someone decided to make changes that effects the day to day with out a getting input from the unofficial factions along with official ones. it is not our fault that the server not update unofficial faction list.
RE: Zoners - Skorak - 05-23-2017
I did just update that...
RE: Zoners - MotokoSusu - 05-23-2017
blah those things are ugly. UGLY they look like cookie cutter blocky blek. do not touch the neph it is elegant and graceful.
RE: Zoners - Wilfred - 05-25-2017
I don't know how well this comparison really holds up, but I like to think of the Zoners as "Switzerland in space". Non-aggressive, but fiercely independent. Diplomatically neutral -- but it's an armed neutrality.
Will trade with pretty much everyone who agrees to play nice. Will invite almost anyone, as long as they agree to behave ethically.
A rather loose confederation, where the cantons (or freeports) have a very high degree of independence, even if there are some federal regulating bodies.
Switzerland has a fairly small standing army, but a very large Home Guard, or Citizens' Militia. And the Zoners have Nephs, with 22 turrets of neutrality.
(Do I have a point to this post? Not really; I'm mostly just waffling.)
RE: Zoners - Doc Holliday - 05-26-2017
I haven't played in some time now but old vets remember me well and what I accomplished on this server. I played nothing but a Zoner and did it better than most. RPing a Zoner is probably the toughest RP you will ever do here. With neutrality, you have to be able to establish dialogue between people who are bitter enemies and fly away unscathed. You have to be able to make at LEAST cordial relations among those warring people and be able to make a life where no one else wants to be.
As to the ships, I was and admin when the 5k rule came into effect. I thought it was a nice compromise as Zoners were angering house shippers with bigger ships and stealing business. I had my trusty Borderworlds trade ship and it's all I ever used with a cargo hold of 3200 units (after armor) and trades to fund my late enterprise, Med Force Enterprises. I'm proud to say that I built it mostly on my own with a few donations included.
Why have I not returned? Real life got me. Work....and lots of it. I'm also a performer doing at least two theater productions a year. It's nice in that I have to pick what I want to do as directors come looking for me. Working for the military, I'm gone a lot and of course, my wife and son.
So yeah, being a Zoner isn't easy but you learn RP first and shoot last, something I wish all would do.
RE: Zoners - moebus - 05-27-2017
Interesting discussion, it is good to have it from time to time to think about what are zoners of disco...
I've been playing zoner characters since I joined disco a few years ago, so here are my 2 cents:
(Hello Doc!)
»»» Zoner whales that cannot dock in sovereign house space
I understand it is a server rule to prevent power trading. So far I did not find any official inrp justification. My own inrp interpretation is that the House governments decided to ban large zoner transports from their sovereign spaces to protect their economy because the zoner whales were competing too much with their own trading factions.
Interestingly OSI is no longer affected by this restriction (in exchange of caps) and I did not hear any complaint about powertrading zoners.
»»» Zoners and piracy
Of course zoners can be pirated. But maybe less often than house trading factions in terms of frequency and amount of credits demanded (this is what I experienced).
»»» Zoners want to be left alone
That's probably the best common denominator between zoners. But it does not mean to me that zoners are self-sufficient. They still rely on other factions (especially the House factions) to get some of their commodities. I like the vanilla lore where zoners are tolerated by their neighbors because of the services they provide. In vanilla, factions had weakness and zoners help them to overcome them. I don't think the zoners are all anarchist, maybe some of them (the rogue zoners?) but I guess most of them regrouped in small societies that have at least a few minimal rules to administrate their daily business. This includes the No-Fire-Zone rule that is a necessary condition to make Freeports a safe business place where all kind of people can meet. Beyond freeports, some zoners live in their ships: they can be explorers traveling space to find new places to settle, scientists studying the universe, or even something else. I guess all of these zoners excepted the troublemaker zoners want to be left alone.
»»» Zoners are civilians
I guess most zoners are civilian, but some of them were possibly militaries that left the Houses. Anyway, space is a dangerous place and I suppose that the zoners have developed at least a small fighting force to defend themselves against hostile people and aliens. Indeed, zoners cannot count on the House governments to defend them like the House corporations. It does not mean to me that the zoners have an army (there were some attempts like with the zoner alliance but it failed due to the lack of unity between zoner groups). Actually, I think the zoners can deal on their own against small temporary threats but cannot really hope to face armies sent by House governments or other major factions.
When the threat is too important, the zoners can call their allies (especially The Order, thank you guys!). Nevertheless, I read somewhere in the vanilla lore that zoners of Freeport 10 successfully resisted against the outcasts. This show that zoners are not defenseless. What is probably missing from vanilla is that zoners are usually more helpful alive than dead since they provide services helping groups to overcome their weaknesses. Such groups should think twice before attacking zoners (but unfortunately in disco we usually don't roleplay weaknesses).
»»» United zoners?
Globally, I don't think so. I consider that most of the zoners are regrouped in small societies living on freeports. Some of these societies are regrouped in official factions (even if zoner indies may also live on every freeport). Each society/faction has its own vision of how to survive in Sirius. I believe that zoners of a given society/faction are globally united. But different societies/factions are not expected to be united. It has been already be shown that zoner factions had very different opinions on how to deal with specific problems in the past. Nevertheless, this does not mean zoner society/factions are totally independent. There might be some sympathy between zoner communities. Zoners are probably willing to help each other if possible. But I do not expect that zoners of Freeport 10 would be at war against Red Hessians if Freeport 8 would be assaulted by Hessians. Maybe they would still try to send some medical supplies to help.
»»» Capital zoner ships
I don't think that was a good idea to give caps to zoners (and to other non-House military factions). As I see it, it mostly resulted in problems while not really fitting with the vanilla zoner lore. Building capital ships requires a lot of technical knowledge and resources. Moreover caps must be maintained. I don't think zoners can really dedicate so much time and resources to build and maintain them (as well as other non-House military factions). The cost is simply too high regarding the zoner priorities such as maintaining freeports, developing civilian technologies, supporting their neighbors. Zoners should have developed colony ships instead of war ships to explore deep space and settle on planets. Maybe zoner capital ship-line could be reconverted in civilian ships in the future.
Regarding capital zoner ships entering House space (or other own spaces) without prior agreement, it is clear that it represents a threat for local authorities. I have no problem that the local authorities ask such zoner ships to leave their space and destroy it if they don't comply. The problem is that such event can be a pretext to blame the whole zoner community (like in the past, a faction could complain to zoners if they were assaulted by some freelancers using a zoner technology). I am not sure what is the best option to deal with such situations. Based on my experience, people always find reasons to complain and blame other people for something.
»»» Nephilim registry
I understand this registry is truly made to identify rogue zoners. I am not sure how it works and I am actually curious about its efficiency to solve issues with zoner rogues. I suppose I will see that in the future.
»»» The CoF
I am not totally sure if I am correct but I see the CoF as a council where the representatives of official zoner factions and freeport administrators discuss about problems. Eventually, when they agree on something, they make a decision. For what I've seen (and I might have missed something), the main duty of the CoF is to deal with breaks of no fire zones.
The CoF also ensures that a ban from a freeport is also effective in all other zoner bases and Gran Canaria. I guess this point is debatable since it implicitly forces the administrators to be united with other administrators despite the fact that each administrator might not care about what is happening at the other side of Sirius. Based of what I've read in this discussion, not everybody agrees that zoner administrators should be united. Maybe zoner sanctions should be managed locally instead of globally (but I see that we have reached the limit of IFF so it would require to remove a few IFF to free 4 or 5 zoner IFF for zoner regions. For instance: omega, omicron, tau and independent/border worlds)
Beyond that, the CoF does not really represent the whole zoner community (for what I know, indies and unofficial groups are not all part of the CoF) and the decisions made by the CoF cannot really affect zoners who don't support the CoF. As far as I know, there is no mechanism to force zoners to comply with the CoF. Based on what I've read, maybe the CoF should organize public hearings where all zoners could participate when important decisions that are expected to affect all zoners are going to be taken by the CoF. This could increase the support from non-CoF zoners to respect and enforce the CoF decisions.
»»» The zoner roleplay
With all of what have been said, it is clear that people have different opinions of what are zoners (even if they might agree on the main lines). I guess it is ok to have different types of zoners, some being more zen-hedonist, some being more hard-core-survivors, some being more mad-scientists, etc... They might disagree between themselves when it's time to regroup and face a problem, that's ok too. It is not a bad roleplay. We see that everyday on earth. What is important is that players respect each others: inrp divergences should not be taken personally and cause oorp hate.
RE: Zoners - MotokoSusu - 06-02-2017
Very good points moebus I agree with most of them as I see the zoners as well. this debate thou of the Zoners having cap ship is a issue that allot of people have why they need them. I do agree in part why they need a carrier and a cruiser and gunboats. The Nephilim I do not see a issue with thou it is a colony ship and built for the most part to be multi use platform. it armaments are placed at the center of the vessel it has really no ventral defense it is more or less armed for defense and not a attack vessel like most of the house battleships.
This is where I have my biggest issue. everyone looks at the Nephilim as a battleship when clearly it is called a colony ship but is look at as a battle ship. but the Bastard is a carrier but is not viewed as one do to naming of it as in the Corvo which clearly is a cruiser in armor and power supply but has been packaged with gunboat arms. you can shoot for ever on a Corvo and never run out of energy which seems pointless. yes a few people have gotten ahold of Nephs and caused trouble. a lot of the banning of the Neph from my view point is house official factions don't want to deal with them so they banned them. Chuck Yager once said " It's the man not the machine".
also the other issues the events like with the Cult most every one of them happened in house space where they could use their cap ships to fight leaving any one else with cap ships out of them because of the house rules and had to fly lesser ships with a higher chance of being killed. When these events yield rewards. I personally enjoyed the events but was left fighting with a gunboat. The event in Delta I stayed away from because it was not the type of RP I felt Zoners should been involved in.
I guess the server is more geared for House game play then anything else. and it seems 80% of every thing happens in Liberty so I guess that is why everyone and their brother/sister has a LN ship. maybe the CoF is not a bad idea in some standpoints unite all the Zoners and start enforcing laws on everyone else chase away anyone we don't like. it seems to work in house space pffft. because it really is hard at times not to blow the crud out of people when you have 22 guns at your beckon call. but It has been said "With great power... Comes great responsibility"