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+--- Thread: Lock Capital Ships to Zone of Influence on Independent IDs (/showthread.php?tid=158361)
RE: Lock Capital Ships to Zone of Influence on Independent IDs - LaWey - 02-23-2018
I just write about coalition as example how factions can use indie. Another part was more about fact - that zoi and other stuff represent real players diplomacy or not? I mean many of that seems just very outdated.
And, maybe we are just more talk about houses navys? because i dont see reasons why for example mad corsairs or maltesians or any inhouse criminal commander cannot bring his cap whereever he want. What inRP prevents they?
RE: Lock Capital Ships to Zone of Influence on Independent IDs - Karlotta - 02-23-2018
(02-23-2018, 08:51 PM)Lythrilux Wrote:(02-23-2018, 08:40 PM)Alex. Wrote: ok, let's do it to official faction IDs too
As stated, The Core and Order IDs are examples of indies having restrictions and the official ID having allowances. And they work just fine. Official IDs have shown that, combined with existing responsibilities, they can take their caps out of their ZoI sensibly.
I don't man, these official nomad caps shooting up liberty and emoting near planet Manhattan have really been bothering me.
So lets do what Alex said.
RE: Lock Capital Ships to Zone of Influence on Independent IDs - Lythrilux - 02-23-2018
(02-23-2018, 09:08 PM)Anton Okunev Wrote: I just write about coalition as example how factions can use indie. Another part was more about fact - that zoi and other stuff represent real players diplomacy or not? I mean many of that seems just very outdated.
ZoI represents the developments of the NPC faction as per lore.
(02-23-2018, 09:08 PM)Anton Okunev Wrote: And, maybe we are just more talk about houses navys? because i dont see reasons why for example mad corsairs or maltesians or any inhouse criminal commander cannot bring his cap whereever he want. What inRP prevents they?
Supplies? Repairs? Ability to survive in hostile space for long periods of time? Environmental hazards? The list goes on.
(02-23-2018, 09:12 PM)Karlotta Wrote: I don't man, these official nomad caps shooting up liberty and emoting near planet Manhattan have really been bothering me.
So lets do what Alex said.
You do know that the K'Hara (not so sure about the Vagrant one, it might be the same) ID has no ZoI and thus your point is moot in the context of this suggestion?
RE: Lock Capital Ships to Zone of Influence on Independent IDs - Titan* - 02-23-2018
why dont we just give fuel to capships? That will prevent capital ships from going too far for sure, give faction ships their own fuel type and make them only purchasable from their faction systems,stations.
would be good for moneysink aswell
only jump gates should take fuel though. If you stuck in a system you can pay someone to bring fuel for you etc.
Dont know if thats possible
RE: Lock Capital Ships to Zone of Influence on Independent IDs - LaWey - 02-23-2018
What can be more hostile in space than BS with mad capitan? They can just get near to some civilian facilities/transport and say "supplyordie". About environmental hazards ha, this sounds like we have some factions without high radiation/local cataclysm/remains of war or another same thing in their space. I think any cap can very fast adapt in ANY situations, why not, they dont have this crew and supply aboard for it? So one-manned snub without any supply in your logic more better fitted for long range action? And carrier(especially frikin carriers) or cruiser not? (Because you suppose use snubs for important RP)
But anyway, even they should die because their madness have consequenses, and not because they have some magical restrictments.
RE: Lock Capital Ships to Zone of Influence on Independent IDs - Ash - 02-23-2018
(02-23-2018, 01:15 PM)Thyrzul Wrote:Allow me to clarify. My main concern is that making this action tantamount to a liberty invasion of malta is simply just overkill.(02-23-2018, 12:12 PM)Ash Wrote: This is a spaceship shooting game first and foremost, you cannot organise it's players like books in a library.
Of course you can, that's what IDs and NPC factions are for, each faction is a book and each iD is a summary/table of contents of said book. But if you wouldn't look for information regarding genetic engineering in a book about quantum physics, why would you fly the warship of a gallic anti-GRN faction into the deep Omicrons? The alternative of the current system is that we drop the faction system and everyone becomes freelancer one dash one, do we want that though?What your speaking of here paints a very orwellian picture of the future of the discovery mod; where each player becomes a mouthpiece and nothing more for the segment of lore they represent. We are human, we deviate, what you're speaking of is the perfect system for robots. We're currently closer to that reality than the one you've warned us of.
(02-23-2018, 01:15 PM)Thyrzul Wrote: I see you tend to return to the point of "let's try looking at it from the pov of a newbie", which then seems to imply mainly two major things, namely "you either agree with me or haven't considered the pov of a newbie" and "this thread is about newbies, not indies". These are false implications. I can still remember what I've done as a newbie, learn as much as fast as possible in order not to make mistakes, thus I can consider the pov of a newbie and still disagree. And then this thread isn't about newbies, it is about indies - though I don't think it would affect me personally or my faction either should the restriction be extended upon official factions -, and it mainly wouldn't affect "newbies", just those who can't, or rather, don't want to learn and play by the current written and unwritten set of consensual community rules and guidelines. You don't have to be a newbie to cry rivers for "muh freedom" (as the example of this thread shows) and you don't need to be a vet to manage playing by the current status quo and (be creative enough to) make the best out of it.
These characters you're talking about are outliers. I have very little sympathy when it seems the worst they've done is cramp your style.
By imposing this rule you're not just targeting misguided players with big ships, you're taking more away from independent players and further limiting their RP options. New or old, not everyone wants to go through the bureaucracy of officialdom. To do so consumes more time than a lot people have to invest in this game. This narrows the demographic that can enjoy the mod's full potential to those few who have that time.
I couldn't care less for activity. I care for new players who come here and want to stay here. This idea contradicts that.
Seeing these sorts of concepts makes me sad for new players. I remember the first time i undocked from Manhattan. It was version 4.83 and the mod was already incredibly complex and mindblowingly exciting to enter into. As I began to comprehend the mod's mechanics my mind raced at the prospects of what roles i could assume. The truth is it was a mess. New York was like an all-faction salad on the best of days. It was a chaotic, buggy, tyrannically run hive of activity that rarely dipped below 70 players at any given time. And it was paradise for a newbie who wanted to trial out RP ideas without being judged, ganked, reported, sanctioned and banned.
That was then. Today's discovery is more orderly, which isn't a bad thing. But that notion remains the same. You're depriving players of the freedom they assume they have when you impose more and more rules like this. It turns the mod as a whole into a bit of an anticlimax.
The reason i'm sad is that the drive for this is coming from the community whereas before it came from the admins.
RE: Lock Capital Ships to Zone of Influence on Independent IDs - Thyrzul - 02-24-2018
(02-23-2018, 11:22 PM)Ash Wrote: What your speaking of here paints a very orwellian picture of the future of the discovery mod; where each player becomes a mouthpiece and nothing more for the segment of lore they represent. We are human, we deviate, what you're speaking of is the perfect system for robots. We're currently closer to that reality than the one you've warned us of.
What I'm speaking of here is pretty much the wish for each player become a segment of lore they choose to represent. I'm just wishing IDs don't lose their meanings and factions won't deteriorate to mere ship packs of choice for one's unique snowflake limitless RP (which in fact is possible either way, just needs an SRP, read: effort). There is nothing orwellian about it, I do not want robots, I'm not against deviation, just the recently experienced extent of it.
To keep using Council's example, there is no issue with a temporary alliance with outcasts against GRN or the other way around, or unique personal diplomacy as long as it serves the main purpose of the choice of ID and NPC faction, in this case either the liberation of Gallia from the crown's tyranny, or keeping controlled space free from outcasts and cardamine. But going as far as Omicron Delta to hunt Nomads has barely anything to do with that. And there are several other IDs and NPC factions more suitable for the purpose should anyone wish to pursue a squidhunter career.
To keep using Council's example, there is no issue with a temporary alliance with outcasts against GRN or the other way around, or unique personal diplomacy as long as it serves the main purpose of the choice of ID and NPC faction, in this case either the liberation of Gallia from the crown's tyranny, or keeping controlled space free from outcasts and cardamine. But going as far as Omicron Delta to hunt Nomads has barely anything to do with that. And there are several other IDs and NPC factions more suitable for the purpose should anyone wish to pursue a squidhunter career.
(02-23-2018, 11:22 PM)Ash Wrote: These characters you're talking about are outliers. I have very little sympathy when it seems the worst they've done is cramp your style.
By imposing this rule you're not just targeting misguided players with big ships, you're taking more away from independent players and further limiting their RP options. New or old, not everyone wants to go through the bureaucracy of officialdom. To do so consumes more time than a lot people have to invest in this game. This narrows the demographic that can enjoy the mod's full potential to those few who have that time.
First, it's not my style, it's the lore of the faction I myself have managed to understand, accept, agree to and play by ever since, just like many many others also chosing the Council ID, IFF and tags before and beside me. It's not that difficult, believe me.
Second, it's been explained before, there are no actual RP limits included in this proposal. There is no difference between the smallest snubcraft and the largest warship regarding verbal roleplay, it's all up to the typing speed, creativity and motives of the player in question, the difference is in terms of combat only, but then all ships are already restricted to only self-defense out of ZoI1.
Third, people are not forced to go through the "bureaucracy" of officialdom for special treatment, they can also submit a Special RolePlay (SRP) request - as I said before -, in which they can prove they worked hard enough for the perks they ask for. Oh wait, that requires going through bureaucracy as well, damn it. But I guess you aren't proposing getting candy for free, are you?
Second, it's been explained before, there are no actual RP limits included in this proposal. There is no difference between the smallest snubcraft and the largest warship regarding verbal roleplay, it's all up to the typing speed, creativity and motives of the player in question, the difference is in terms of combat only, but then all ships are already restricted to only self-defense out of ZoI1.
Third, people are not forced to go through the "bureaucracy" of officialdom for special treatment, they can also submit a Special RolePlay (SRP) request - as I said before -, in which they can prove they worked hard enough for the perks they ask for. Oh wait, that requires going through bureaucracy as well, damn it. But I guess you aren't proposing getting candy for free, are you?
(02-23-2018, 11:22 PM)Ash Wrote: I couldn't care less for activity. I care for new players who come here and want to stay here. This idea contradicts that.
(02-23-2018, 11:22 PM)Ash Wrote: Today's discovery is more orderly, which isn't a bad thing. But that notion remains the same. You're depriving players of the freedom they assume they have when you impose more and more rules like this. It turns the mod as a whole into a bit of an anticlimax.
Lastly, you are speaking of new players again, but this change isn't aiming at new players. It's meant to help form a defined boundary within which a certain degree of flexibility still makes sense, but past which the choice of faction and role loses it's meaning. There are far more severe issues making people leave, new or old, and folks willing to stay will stay even despite those.
I am not against freedom. I am against libertine, chaos, lack of consequences...
... speaking of which, I remember how much it was welcomed when the techcompat system replaced the technology chart. Instead of a permission and prohibition system, consequences were introduced, everybody is now able to mount (almost) any piece of technology, although at the cost of powercore regeneration rate, depending on a case by case basis. Yay.
What do you folks think if instead of locking capital ships to ZoIs, we'd impose consequences, like cash penalty of a few ten millions, upon PvP death? The freedom to go anywhere remains, but consequences would finally exist, and not just for two hours each time you are caught. Would consequences be better than restrictions?
1Council's exceptions are official ships, strictly of gunboat size and smaller, strictly against GRN targets only.
I am not against freedom. I am against libertine, chaos, lack of consequences...
... speaking of which, I remember how much it was welcomed when the techcompat system replaced the technology chart. Instead of a permission and prohibition system, consequences were introduced, everybody is now able to mount (almost) any piece of technology, although at the cost of powercore regeneration rate, depending on a case by case basis. Yay.
What do you folks think if instead of locking capital ships to ZoIs, we'd impose consequences, like cash penalty of a few ten millions, upon PvP death? The freedom to go anywhere remains, but consequences would finally exist, and not just for two hours each time you are caught. Would consequences be better than restrictions?
1Council's exceptions are official ships, strictly of gunboat size and smaller, strictly against GRN targets only.
RE: Lock Capital Ships to Zone of Influence on Independent IDs - Nodoka Hanamura - 02-24-2018
(02-24-2018, 01:22 AM)Thyrzul Wrote: What do you folks think if instead of locking capital ships to ZoIs, we'd impose consequences, like cash penalty of a few ten millions, upon PvP death? The freedom to go anywhere remains, but consequences would finally exist, and not just for two hours each time you are caught. Would consequences be better than restrictions?Yes. That'd suffice, outside of the obvious, like Gallic BSes and what not in Bretonia.
RE: Lock Capital Ships to Zone of Influence on Independent IDs - LaWey - 02-24-2018
Really good idea,this what about i told too, consequences instead restrictions.Fully agreed.
RE: Lock Capital Ships to Zone of Influence on Independent IDs - Ash - 02-24-2018
(02-24-2018, 01:22 AM)Thyrzul Wrote: What do you folks think if instead of locking capital ships to ZoIs, we'd impose consequences, like cash penalty of a few ten millions, upon PvP death? The freedom to go anywhere remains, but consequences would finally exist, and not just for two hours each time you are caught. Would consequences be better than restrictions?
See now this is more in the spirit of modern discovery. Instead of throwing up a wall that requires people read rules and lore to avoid sanctoning, incorporate a consequence that if they want to understand, can find info on the forums.
A softer approach and one that i can get behind.