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+--- Thread: Bomber Balance (/showthread.php?tid=176246)
RE: Bomber Balance - Dan. - 01-26-2020
(01-26-2020, 01:28 AM)fauee Wrote: Bomber should not be used to combat fighters. They already can absolutely annihilate transports, larger cap ships, and the only two ships that can really take them out effectively are VHFs and GBs. That's kinda like, perfect balance.+1
Bombers don't need a buff. They shouldn't be capable of killing everything they come across easily. Bombers should only be able to defeat a VHF if there is an EXTREME skill mismatch between the two pilots, their role is to take down Caps, not be Space Superiority fighters.
I would say that if any damage buffs were to be done to Bombers, the appropriate thing would be to also lower their hitpoints and maneuverability. That way they may do more damage, but a VHF can use its maneuverability to take them down with ease.
But I suspect that's not the desire, the desire is to see Bombers be the answer to all questions. I played here when Bombers were like that. It was no fun. The only ships you encountered were bombers, because why fly anything else if it can kill everything? Pirates and Cops would have bomber fights, if you were a new player, you were guaranteed to get ganked by a bomber asking for a crapload of credits, but really just wanting to blow you up. It sucked, and was no fun. It was far more fun then to play the game away from others, rather than interact with each other, because it was just a stream of endless bombers harassing you.
Nailed it bro.
RE: Bomber Balance - Baphomet - 01-26-2020
Really Lucas? You see no bias here?? Wow/
Ok a little bit of simple logic, i hope you can follow. So an anti cap class isnt supposed to be able to kill fighters by your logic, right?? ok ok
Then why can a Gunboat, kill a cruiser with pulse, cerb setup?? I mean the purpose of a gunboat was to kill fighters and bombers, not cruisers.
Discovery wiki quotes:
" Gunboats are typically used to kill Fighters and other small craft either solo or in groups, but sometimes as escorts for Capital Ships. "
" Bombers, can seriously hurt larger ships, which in turn often employ Fighter and Gunboat wings to fend off approaching bombers. "
Clearly the Gunboats purpose was to fight snubcraft and yet people like Antonio trained themselves to kill cruisers and even BCs with it. So i guess this is ok, yeah??
But when someone manages to train himself to kill a fighter with a bomber( god forbid and mother Marry have mercy on us) , suddenly its a big no no and everyone who ever died to a bomber is strongly butthurt with a tissue in his hands crying for a nerf.
Gimme a break, lets all stop lying to ourselves and accept the truth. Someone got SNACed who shouldnt have been SNACed. The SNAC became useless vs fighters.
But we are not asking for OP stuff here for fraks motherfraking sake. I thought you people can read. READ!!!! No one is saying give us a 1500 m/sec weapon that does 1 milion damage/hit with a range of 2k. FFS
All we want is something little to lessen the misery a little bit. FFS. I hate getting angry and i rarely do, but all of our pleas seem to fall on deaf and asshurt ears.
Give either a little bit velocity for bomber guns or increase a Render damage a bit, idk to 960 hull and 480 shld, but do something to give people who love bombers SOMEWHAT of a chance if HE/SHE really tries hard.
Talkin about balance, mostly the people who laugh their asses off when they see a bomber in their VHF and have fun killing a defensless ship. Keep takin about how you want and like balance. Also keep talkin to yourself in the mirror, braise yourself, tell your ego how good you look, talk to your muscles and blah blah blah. Cuz youll be on the same page as with bombers. FFS
P.S. Sorry for getting a bit angry mah dudes and ladies, but its what happens when i see 17 threads about how bomber needs a change and no one is doing anything about it. Seriously, have fun a do some good RP.
FFS
RE: Bomber Balance - Lucas - 01-26-2020
I've told people a million times that I think Gunboats are a flawed class that need a complete overhaul.
The job of a bomber is not to take out fighters, it is to take out caps. Which it can do just fine, extremely easy too with Nova's.
RE: Bomber Balance - LaWey - 01-26-2020
Quote:But I suspect that's not the desire, the desire is to see Bombers be the answer to all questions. I played here when Bombers were like that. It was no fun. The only ships you encountered were bombers, because why fly anything else if it can kill everything? Pirates and Cops would have bomber fights, if you were a new player, you were guaranteed to get ganked by a bomber asking for a crapload of credits, but really just wanting to blow you up. It sucked, and was no fun. It was far more fun then to play the game away from others, rather than interact with each other, because it was just a stream of endless bombers harassing you.
There just alot of peoples who seems played somewhere in Gallia/Bretonia only or in some other strange places and who dont believe that at least for 2-3 past years different light bombers, used in anti-snub manner, were main class of any small gank in Omegas and Omicrons.
Quote:The job of a bomber is not to take out fighters, it is to take out caps. Which it can do just fine, extremely easy too with Nova's.
Tho, there were minds about cruisers which are true. Cruisers with good shape make very hard time for bombers even with standard LM loadout. As well as probably scorchers could have bigger rate of fire in order to give faster options to kill caps without novas.
RE: Bomber Balance - Lucas - 01-26-2020
SNAC works very well on Cruisers
RE: Bomber Balance - LaWey - 01-26-2020
(01-26-2020, 11:51 AM)Lucas Wrote: SNAC works very well on Cruisers
![[Image: 1466966822117964370.png]](https://cs4.pikabu.ru/images/big_size_comm/2016-06_6/1466966822117964370.png)
Tommorow, you will go in attack on HMS-Abbys first!
(01-26-2020, 11:46 AM)Anton Okunev Wrote: Cruisers with good shape make very hard time for bombers even with standard LM loadout.
(01-24-2020, 12:15 PM)Lucas Wrote: LM + Pulse is a very effective way to kill snubs of all skill classes.
RE: Bomber Balance - Karlotta - 01-26-2020
(01-26-2020, 01:28 AM)fauee Wrote: Bomber should not be used to combat fighters.
...
their role is to take down Caps, not be Space Superiority fighters.
...
I would say that if any damage buffs were to be done to Bombers, the appropriate thing would be to also lower their hitpoints and maneuverability. That way they may do more damage, but a VHF can use its maneuverability to take them down with ease.
But I suspect that's not the desire, the desire is to see Bombers be the answer to all questions. I played here when Bombers were like that. It was no fun. The only ships you encountered were bombers, because why fly anything else if it can kill everything? Pirates and Cops would have bomber fights, if you were a new player, you were guaranteed to get ganked by a bomber asking for a crapload of credits, but really just wanting to blow you up. It sucked, and was no fun. It was far more fun then to play the game away from others, rather than interact with each other, because it was just a stream of endless bombers harassing you.
I don't know if you're answering to the OP or to something someone else said (like giving bombers fighter guns, which I'm not?), but all I'm asking to do in favor of bombers is raise their gun projectile velocities from 500 to either 550 or 600. That will make things slightly easier to hit, especially for newer players, and especially against smaller targets.
Raising gun speed from 500 to 550 will hardly turn bombers into anti-VHF space superiority fighters.
And it will hardly make bombers "the answer to all questions", especially since I'm asking to buff VHF anti-cap capabilities by giving them longer gun ranges so they can hit caps from a slightly higher distance, and a weak torpedo that will let inexperienced VHF pilots be able to do at least a little damage to caps in a group fight.
So this is hardly making "bombers the answer to all questions". It's rather making snubs more attractive because atm a bomber can do diddly-squat against VHFs, and a VHF can do jack-poop against caps, especially when flown by noobs.
RE: Bomber Balance - St.Denis - 01-26-2020
I have stayed away from this as I am not a PvPer, but have now decided to add my two pennies, for what it is worth.
As a Player that is way down in the lower percentage of PvP capable people, I am almost certain that if I met a more competent PvPer who was flying his Bomber, with the current SNAC, and I was in a Fighter, I would still lose.
With the SNAC, in its old design, the bigger the skill gap between Players, the more certain the Fighter would lose to the Bomber. The closer that skill gap becomes, the less likely that the Fighter will lose to the Bomber.
The problem was that the skill gap had to be quite close before it became more favourable to the Fighters. This was why it became so popular for the more PvP capable people to fly light Bombers in snub fights. I have seen one Bomber take out four Fighters, one after the other, and these people were a lot more PvP capable than I am (the Bretonian honour of fighting one on one).
The Bomber, as far as I am aware, is an 'anti-cap' Ship and it has the capabilities to do that job very well (I have assisted in Cap Ships kills with a Bomber, so it seems to work for me). Bombers should be 'frightened' of Fighters (it is true in RL, hence why they generally have Fighter Escorts). It became that Bombers were the 'go to Ship' for everything and weren't 'frightened' of anything.
Has the balance gone too far? I have no idea. From what I see, the Bomber is still well capable of doing its intended Job.
I see a lot of cries of bias etc. Both sides are biased in their own way. Just because people disagree with your point of view, doesn't mean that you should ridicule them. Accept that they have their opinion and it is just as valid as yours. Once you start ridiculing their opinion, it starts to make your arguments less valid (as people will just ignore it) and more of a personal attack (which I hope isn't the intent).
There is nothing to be lost by saying 'I disagree with your opinion' or just 'lets agree to disagree'.
RE: Bomber Balance - Karlotta - 01-26-2020
This thread is not about giving fighter-instakill capabilities back to SNAC.
It would be nice if you could keep that discussion to the SNAC threads, thanks.
RE: Bomber Balance - -Rax- - 01-26-2020
(01-26-2020, 12:35 PM)St.Denis Wrote: I have stayed away from this as I am not a PvPer, but have now decided to add my two pennies, for what it is worth.
As a Player that is way down in the lower percentage of PvP capable people, I am almost certain that if I met a more competent PvPer who was flying his Bomber, with the current SNAC, and I was in a Fighter, I would still lose.
With the SNAC, in its old design, the bigger the skill gap between Players, the more certain the Fighter would lose to the Bomber. The closer that skill gap becomes, the less likely that the Fighter will lose to the Bomber.
The problem was that the skill gap had to be quite close before it became more favourable to the Fighters. This was why it became so popular for the more PvP capable people to fly light Bombers in snub fights. I have seen one Bomber take out four Fighters, one after the other, and these people were a lot more PvP capable than I am (the Bretonian honour of fighting one on one).
The Bomber, as far as I am aware, is an 'anti-cap' Ship and it has the capabilities to do that job very well (I have assisted in Cap Ships kills with a Bomber, so it seems to work for me). Bombers should be 'frightened' of Fighters (it is true in RL, hence why they generally have Fighter Escorts). It became that Bombers were the 'go to Ship' for everything and weren't 'frightened' of anything.
Has the balance gone too far? I have no idea. From what I see, the Bomber is still well capable of doing its intended Job.
I see a lot of cries of bias etc. Both sides are biased in their own way. Just because people disagree with your point of view, doesn't mean that you should ridicule them. Accept that they have their opinion and it is just as valid as yours. Once you start ridiculing their opinion, it starts to make your arguments less valid (as people will just ignore it) and more of a personal attack (which I hope isn't the intent).
There is nothing to be lost by saying 'I disagree with your opinion' or just 'lets agree to disagree'.
The problem came to the surface when both parties "nerf vs restore snac instakilling capability" had valid oppinions in their side and nontheless the snac was still nerfed and few words were given about it. It's just actually raising the topic 1 year afterwards and explainations are given.
And yeah I guess Karlotta's purpose is to solve this bomber gap that was created in this class after giving it few options against basically everything and killing us from boredom by logging it.
On a side note, and sadly, I still consider bombers can't be reworked, at least for the moment, since we're not reaching a conclusion on how is this class going to act and what is it going to be.