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+--- Thread: Reduce the Prices on Battleships (/showthread.php?tid=22636)
Reduce the Prices on Battleships - Elsdragon - 07-04-2009
Apparently
It was about no one trusting faction leaders to not withold from indies. Its a big reactionary fear to shoot down real change
Reduce the Prices on Battleships - Elvin - 07-04-2009
' Wrote:Apparently
It was about no one trusting faction leaders to not withold from indies. Its a big reactionary fear to shoot down real change
We should organise some movement to make admin-approved-BSes-only-with-reduced-prices ... I belive that serious and RPing people would have no big problem getting it approved, yet shoot-shoot-lol-u-ded people would be greatly reduced.
I'm sorry if I sound somehow discriminating, but yes, I would like to have BS, but I won't get it, and yes, I'm getting pissed often when seeing what some people do with BSes.
Like my favorite screenshot, when I undocked FP in Delta with my Zoner and caught 5 BH BSes talking about if the should go camp Toledo or rather Crete (They even used the word camp).
Reduce the Prices on Battleships - Jinx - 07-04-2009
i think we should - despite all discussions about the price set one thing clear...
battleships are still a joke compared to what their shape and appearence "suggests" ( i m not using the term "ought to be" cause thats a lot more subjective even - but a ship with thousands of crew members, enough material and a reactor to power a medium sized town a life long.... - for that, they re still pathetic )
now - what options do we have?
we have the idea of balance by players or balance by RP shiptype.
and thats the problem really. - when it comes to players - one battleship equals ONE player. - and ONE battleship cannot be taken down by ONE bomber = one player. - it takes 2 but rather 3 players to take down one if this one player pays enough money.
so in fact - you don t pay for your shipclass so much - but you pay to "weigh as much as 3 other players".
the RP approach is to think of - well.. .roleplayed terms. - for that matter... one battleship = maybe 2000 or more crew members that work a LOT better than a single person, cause they can share their work - perform a lot more tasks in the same time be a lot more flexible and adaptive to any situation. - when we apply that standard....
one battleship is better than even a dozen bombers - maybe not by taking those 12 bombers down - but by CERTAINLY surviving them.
what effect has that on the gameplay? - we simply cannot afford it. we don t have that many players - and it is still a fact. the fastest and safest way to take down a battleship is to deploy..... two battleships ( as opposed to 2 to 3 bombers )
i would truely love battleships to be a lot more durable - be the very last to go down in a fleet battle.
the new balance gave battleships roughly 3 times the hitpoints they had in 4.84 - while at the same time not really touching the bombers dps. - so it does take the bomber more than three times longer to take down a battleship now ( armour included ).
the fine line is to be drawn between "durable enough" and "a boring combat".
yes, we could give a battleship 20.000.000 base armour, making it 80.000.000 top armour - making it so that they cannot fight bombers more effectivly - but they d literally take HOURS to be taken down even by 6 bombers... and only if the battleship captain went for a RL shopping trip meanwhile.
"should" they have at least that much armour in RP? - hell, yeah. - but its simply boring. - even unopposed, a bomber would sit at an optimal range, dodge the projectiles rather easily - and push his SN button every 20 seconds ..... for 5 hours. yay.
so playability is the key.
right now - the prices are OK. - they reflect "a great deal of money" and frankly.... everyone knows that they are NOT worth it - not at all - the only capital ships that "might" currently be worth the time it takes to buy them are battlecruisers, cause they offer a very good deal for the money.
making battleships cheaper will not get rid of any problem we have ( if we actually do have a problem ) - but the net effect is the same as to boast the general trade output. ( better trade = richer traders, richer pirates )
making them admin approved or otherwise only available to an elite will not suddenly make them better. - those that wish for it should be aware of that. - just cause we "might" only have 2 or 3 on the entire server doesn t mean it suddenly gets 20.000.000 hitpoints!
same with making them even more expensive.
so - right now, they are affordable by factions and individuals alike. - and once you have a 5k ( or another large ) transport - it doesn t take long.
the ONLY way to reduce battleships ( and practicly every other shiptype with expensive weaponry and equipment ) is to increase the maintenance costs.
* a suggestion that was always shot down by even those that wish to REDUCE battleship numbers *
i had suggested in the earlier days of the 4.85 developement to apply "random" ( that means, not every time, but maybe 20% of each time ) jumphole damage to the whole system ( that is the whole ship + components ) ( as suggested in the singleplayer capaign )
so - when a battleship entered a jumphole, there d be a 20% chance that it would take damage ( wahtever the damage - 10% 20% who knows ) - that would make "defensivly" used battleships a lot more attractive, cause in order to "attack" someone - the ship would need to travel a good deal. ( advantage for house battleships, cause THEY can use gates which wouldn t cause damage )
and even then.... we wouldn t buff battleships up to what they might be in RP.
Reduce the Prices on Battleships - Elvin - 07-04-2009
Jinx- Yep, full RP battleships would ruin the game, prolly...
But even now, they are rather strong, and if I say it the harsh way, one idiot in a fighter is a problem, but it's easy to solve it, idiot in battleship is a big problem, that can cause a lot of damage...
Reduced prices or not, better stats or not, I still would suggest admin approval for Battleships - It's another work for admins, yeah, but I think that life in certain sectors of Sirius would be more sweet... At least making sure that Battleship captains are on forums, know the rules and won't fly around asking " Who the heck is Roleplay" and " Why u write // lol" ...
I really don't know.
Reduce the Prices on Battleships - Monk - 07-04-2009
' Wrote:* a suggestion that was always shot down by even those that wish to REDUCE battleship numbers *
i had suggested in the earlier days of the 4.85 developement to apply "random" ( that means, not every time, but maybe 20% of each time ) jumphole damage to the whole system ( as suggested in the singleplayer capaign )
so - when a battleship entered a jumphole, there d be a 20% chance that it would take damage ( wahtever the damage - 10% 20% who knows ) - that would make "defensivly" used battleships a lot more attractive, cause in order to "attack" someone - the ship would need to travel a good deal. ( advantage for house battleships, cause THEY can use gates which wouldn t cause damage )
I really like this idea. It should be very costly to move such a super structure through rips in space-time. I really think this could cut down the number of people who just wander in their BSs looking to pick a fight. However, this would only effect capspam in edgeworlds (where it is more rampant) but would do nothing to curb spamming in say Liberty.
Reduce the Prices on Battleships - triple88a - 07-04-2009
' Wrote:...who are you again?
Yeah. I COULD rig my Battleship so it's somewhat decent for taking down fighters. The only problem is that it then becomes a Battleship for nothing but, and then you get forum wars. Battleships aren't MADE for hunting fighters. That's a BattleCRUISER. And the truth? It's still not that good.
EDIT: Also, six or seven is ridiculous. Only seen one person take down four, and that was in 4.84, and it wasn't you.
I'm Admiral.Tripster.
I fly a dread with tons of solaris guns. The BHGs hate me because every time we do a big group fight and i tag along, i take down nearly half their fleet (including battlecruisers) while the rest eventually go and hide in the nfz. That's why i haven't gone anywhere with it in a while. I don't want to ruin peoples fun.
The Battleships have better (available) guns for hunting fighters/bombers than BCs, the only thing they lack is the thruster. Like i said, with the correct setup, it's a monster.
As the forum wars.. yeah i started to see my name here and there, thats the main reason why i stopped going anywhere with my bs. People play fl for fun, i dont want to ruin that even if we're from opposing teams. If you come and attack, thats another story but even then if we have even amount of fighters vs the intruders, i stand down.
How about making battleships only available at guard systems and all the guard rep go up only a fraction of a dot? This way you need to do much more than a week of trading and being able to buy one... this way you can get some rp in as well.
Reduce the Prices on Battleships - Cellulanus - 07-04-2009
' Wrote:* a suggestion that was always shot down by even those that wish to REDUCE battleship numbers *
i had suggested in the earlier days of the 4.85 developement to apply "random" ( that means, not every time, but maybe 20% of each time ) jumphole damage to the whole system ( that is the whole ship + components ) ( as suggested in the singleplayer capaign )
so - when a battleship entered a jumphole, there d be a 20% chance that it would take damage ( wahtever the damage - 10% 20% who knows ) - that would make "defensivly" used battleships a lot more attractive, cause in order to "attack" someone - the ship would need to travel a good deal. ( advantage for house battleships, cause THEY can use gates which wouldn t cause damage )
and even then.... we wouldn t buff battleships up to what they might be in RP.
I also like this idea, provided that the systems that have a large house presence (Think Guard systems and systems like the Bremen system and the other deep space Liberty-Rheinland border systems) had Jump Gates built in them, since I really think they should have them right now anyways.
Reduce the Prices on Battleships - atlantis2112 - 07-04-2009
I really think the prices are fine right now. However, I don't think giving admins the authority, and the duty to hand out battleships is right. Admins have a lot on their plates as it is.. do they need another 300 messages in their inboxes saying "I wunt bs plz"
Reduce the Prices on Battleships - triple88a - 07-04-2009
I like how it used to be.. there would be a specific group of people for each faction which can give approval to purchase battleships via rping in the appropriate threads.. (Battleship registration).. I play fl nearly every day. I shouldnt have to log on and find a guy i've never seen on there flying my faction battleship because he saw this was the best battleship from the ini files or whatever.
A lot of the factions have stopped doing that after we upgraded to 4.85.
Reduce the Prices on Battleships - DiscoveryAccount - 07-04-2009
Hey Code Geass doctor, have you read my suggestion about battlehips/cruisers? It's similar to what you're saying.