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+----- Forum: [LN] (https://discoverygc.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?fid=715)
+----- Thread: Liberty Navy [LN] Feedback Thread (/showthread.php?tid=11128)
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RE: Liberty Navy [LN] - Goddess Astra - 07-24-2015
If everyone that wanted to complain about IC actions OOCly just made an IC post instead, we'd have so much delightful RP to keep the server chugging.
RE: Liberty Navy [LN] - Sylvie557 - 07-24-2015
Honestly the original post in the LPI feedback was just Sarawr!? making sure their inRP actions weren't being taken as an ooRP insult to LPI.
RE: Liberty Navy [LN] - SpaceTime - 07-24-2015
(07-24-2015, 03:20 AM)Jonas Valent Wrote: It is a joke. For the longest time there was a" Secret Conspiracy Power Rulers chat" made up of some people in LibGov where the decisions were made because that was the only way to prevent other LibGov members from having a real say. I'm sad to say for a time I was in the chat and besides me there was nothing but [LN] members including ones that weren't even in LibGov. The arrogance of [LN] has always existed but it's only in the past few months where it's gotten ridiculous. Besides the blatant ooRP hate the have shown towards certain groups they mistakenly believe that they control the direction of Liberty.
This is a group that because of ooRP dislike drove one of the most active factions off the server by ILLEGALLY destroying a junker POB. Yet who stood up to them when they tried to kill another, LPI the same faction that Admiral Baker feels should be dismantled. Citizens of Liberty remember who stands up for you when others pile on the ooRP hate. Remember La Mona!
(07-24-2015, 03:38 AM)Jonas Valent Wrote: Yes because anyone who disagrees with you deserves to be made fun of behind their back. Specifically one member of LibGov that you all openly treated with contempt and several times discussed LibGov business in there to specifically keep this person in the dark. I find your post amusing because though the name was more of a joke the substance of the conversations in the chat was not. Kinda hard to take you seriously when I was in that chat and saw what you all said until of course I informed the others in LibGov about your little chat then you were wise enough to stop posting there.
*tips hat* Only respect to the person who publicly said of what is going on in LibGov.
And since I don't expect the admins to ever intevene in the place where favoritism and skypefriendships are paramount, we can safely predict that the situation will never change.
RE: Liberty Navy [LN] - Alley - 07-24-2015
(07-24-2015, 09:17 AM)SpaceTime Wrote: And since I don't expect the admins to ever intevene in the place where favoritism and skypefriendships are paramount, we can safely predict that the situation will never change.
That's because you're omitting something very important.
Governments are an inRP creation by this community. They weren't made by the Admins.
These governments and the way they are handled are purely the responsability of the community. If the LibGov has a secret chat, we don't care. If the Bundestag takes 2 months to reply to your RP, we don't care. You made them, you deal with them. Nothing forces you to acknowledge them either, but get ready for inRP consequences.
The Administration will never step in unless there's some serious issue exceptionally warranting it.
RE: Liberty Navy [LN] - Laura C. - 07-24-2015
In my opinion some people are really overreacting over those messages, especially when they took this on ooRP level instead of reacting inRP. Because overreacting inRP would at least make sense. It´s logical that Baker´s public statements would be followed by huge media ***storm and there would people, maybe even other high ranking military officers, who would strongly criticize her. Everyone is free to RP these things, Sarawr even said she is perfectly fine with that.
But that still doesn´t mean she has to be demoted, kicked from navy or even jailed. To use Bill Clinton which was mentioned many times during this discussion - he directly and publicly LIED to his nation in position of president ("I want to say one thing to the American people and I want you to listen to me. I´m going to say this again. I did not have sexual relations with that woman, Miss Lewinsky." - can be found here) and made questioning grand jury testimony while trying to lie his way out of the trouble, yet he was able to finish his term and as was mentioned, many consider him as one of the best US presidents. And some want court martial for Baker for telling personal opinion?
Baker - during telling rebels that using arms to make political change is wrong - expressed her opinion about corporations running security forces in critical manner (so what? this is always debated and criticized by part of people even inRL), saying that if she had power to do it, she would nationalize it. She was also quite harsh against junkers (actually very logical stance to people who she see violating laws regularly, that´s why they have public image of shady people and lawful forces keep closer eye on them). Would some people protest against this type of generalization? Of course, and anybody is free to do it inRP. It´s kind of weird that it´s Sarawr as a player who has to react to pages of ooRP text, while it should be Rachel Baker facing inRP ***storm.
Anyway, opinions and perception of what is "real" or "plausible" are arbitrary as was said here. For example my opinion is that while she should face indignant reactions inRP, she should not be punished because that whole thing happened in Liberty. For example in Rheinland where freedom of speech and public discourse are more limited and guarded in my opinion, punishment would be possible consequence for public criticism of how the house work bad in any way.
RE: Liberty Navy [LN] - Mímir - 07-24-2015
(07-24-2015, 10:33 AM)Laura C. Wrote: In my opinion some people are really overreacting over those messages, especially when they took this on ooRP level instead of reacting inRP. Because overreacting inRP would at least make sense. It´s logical that Baker´s public statements would be followed by huge media ***storm and there would people, maybe even other high ranking military officers, who would strongly criticize her. Everyone is free to RP these things, Sarawr even said she is perfectly fine with that.
As much as I wholeheartedly agree that it ought to be like that, I've done that kind of situational roleplay related to official faction actions three times, and I got burned all three times. In one case it even lead to skype discussions regarding my person and alledged negative character attributes. Yeah, I'm not doing that again. You are naïve if you think that there is not a hefty level of control over the outcome of roleplay, as the secret Lib chat also sort of indicates. If you look at the Disco graveyard, you'll also see how some players are pushed out when they go against the trend. Not trying to sour anyone's grapes, that's just how it is around here. A huge lack of openness and transparency on all levels. A former lead of the faction who claims to have no connection to the present faction at all, yet rushes in to aid in their faction feedback thread and so on. People are complacent and on autopilot most of the time.
I've also yet to see proof of unpatriotic comments regarding a general's country and it's institutions by a real life general still in service. I might be convinced if someone can present me with that.
Either way, are we totally free to completely ignore official factions, their opinions and decrees? Then there's no issue whatsoever.
RE: Liberty Navy [LN] - SpaceTime - 07-24-2015
(07-24-2015, 10:33 AM)Alley Wrote: Governments are an inRP creation by this community. They weren't made by the Admins.
These governments and the way they are handled are purely the responsability of the community.
There are two inaccuracies stated here, which I would like to correct:
- Governments are oorp constructs made by the leaders of the lawful official factions of a House. They are not inRP constructs.
- If they our responsibility, how can we change things? How we have the slightest say on how they deal with stuff?
And I would like to underline and ask something as well, though that's not specific to LibGov and especially not relevant for LN Feedback for which I apologize.
The governments undoubtedly have the biggest influence in the game after the Admins. Why? Because the Houses are the biggest entities and shape everything around a House. So I am asking:
- How can someone inflict RP consequences to a House? No one is powerful enough, and thus you are untouchable.
- Why would someone deal with an ooRP issue (as it is quoted out before) with inRoleplay actions? My personal opinion is that Oorp issues are dealt with Oorp solutions and inRP issues with inRP solutions.
- Why would someone deal with an ooRP issue (as it is quoted out before) with inRoleplay actions? My personal opinion is that Oorp issues are dealt with Oorp solutions and inRP issues with inRP solutions.
RE: Liberty Navy [LN] - Thyrzul - 07-24-2015
Personal comments:
@This is just a game/fiction, and any related stupid thoughts: yes, this is fiction, means certain parts are fictious, but certain parts are taken from our real life. Which is which? Spaceships, FTL travel, aliens, these are fictious. Human emotions, logic, decisions, relations, military hierarchy and responsibilities coming with ranks are not. Learn the difference already.
@Rest: One would expect that people getting into military positions requiring high levels of responsibility got into their position because they met all the requirements, including high levels of responsibility. Witnessing such person in such position behaving less responsible than expected can be quite immersion-breaking, henceforth I can totally understand people discussing this topic on ooRP grounds.
@Responsibility: I personally believe that the rank of a Vice Admiral is high enough to require responsibility including knowing well what a Vice Admiral can and cannot say in public, no matter his or her personal opinion about things and no matter whether he or she speaks as a Vice Admiral at that time or just a single citizen, he or she will still be a figurehead of the military he or she is a member of. This also means reinterpreting his or her own message before sharing it with the public, taking parts out of context and interpreting separately, and then taking out the problematic parts, parts which could be interpreted in a way to be used against himself or herself later, removal of potential attack points in speech is a crucial part of PR, and a responsibility of a Vice Admiral. Should the transmission being the topic of discussion at present have happened with taking care of the above, I'm sure we wouldn't have this drama either.
End of personal comments.
@This is just a game/fiction, and any related stupid thoughts: yes, this is fiction, means certain parts are fictious, but certain parts are taken from our real life. Which is which? Spaceships, FTL travel, aliens, these are fictious. Human emotions, logic, decisions, relations, military hierarchy and responsibilities coming with ranks are not. Learn the difference already.
@Rest: One would expect that people getting into military positions requiring high levels of responsibility got into their position because they met all the requirements, including high levels of responsibility. Witnessing such person in such position behaving less responsible than expected can be quite immersion-breaking, henceforth I can totally understand people discussing this topic on ooRP grounds.
@Responsibility: I personally believe that the rank of a Vice Admiral is high enough to require responsibility including knowing well what a Vice Admiral can and cannot say in public, no matter his or her personal opinion about things and no matter whether he or she speaks as a Vice Admiral at that time or just a single citizen, he or she will still be a figurehead of the military he or she is a member of. This also means reinterpreting his or her own message before sharing it with the public, taking parts out of context and interpreting separately, and then taking out the problematic parts, parts which could be interpreted in a way to be used against himself or herself later, removal of potential attack points in speech is a crucial part of PR, and a responsibility of a Vice Admiral. Should the transmission being the topic of discussion at present have happened with taking care of the above, I'm sure we wouldn't have this drama either.
End of personal comments.
RE: Liberty Navy [LN] - Laura C. - 07-24-2015
(07-24-2015, 11:08 AM)Thyrzul Wrote:End yet from time to time inRL we see high ranking military personel acting really irresponsibly in public - see for example here (first what came to my mind). Thus it should not be immersion-breaking to see them acting in this manner in inRP world based on real one.
@Rest: One would expect that people getting into military positions requiring high levels of responsibility got into their position because they met all the requirements, including high levels of responsibility. Witnessing such person in such position behaving less responsible than expected can be quite immersion-breaking, henceforth I can totally understand people discussing this topic on ooRP grounds.
RE: Liberty Navy [LN] - Mímir - 07-24-2015
(07-24-2015, 11:22 AM)Laura C. Wrote:(07-24-2015, 11:08 AM)Thyrzul Wrote:End yet from time to time inRL we see high ranking military personel acting really irresponsibly in public - see for example here (first what came to my mind). Thus it should not be immersion-breaking to see them acting in this manner in inRP world based on real one.
@Rest: One would expect that people getting into military positions requiring high levels of responsibility got into their position because they met all the requirements, including high levels of responsibility. Witnessing such person in such position behaving less responsible than expected can be quite immersion-breaking, henceforth I can totally understand people discussing this topic on ooRP grounds.
Hello, did you watch the entire clip? Also the bit about how the general was relieved of command for his actions?