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+--- Thread: Should flying a cap require a guard ID? (/showthread.php?tid=13230)
Should flying a cap require a guard ID? - Zelot - 10-23-2008
' Wrote:/signed
Akuma, I've read your comments across numerous threads for some time now, and I've read them carefully. I'm not entirely familiar with your previous sanction situation, and it does seem you tried to iron it out properly initially, but without success (I'm not judging whether that lack of success was itself unjust). I'm also familiar with your previous run-in with a certain former faction leader, and while I understand the logic of his response to you, I really deplored the manner and attitude with which he expressed it - I know I cringed when I read it. Your anger there was understandable and valid.
But I've seen you universalize your experience in unfounded ways, too. I get your anger and frustration - and I pay careful attention to it - but you associate it with people far to widely. Your latest attack on Kuraine is simply unjustifiable, attributing motives to him that aren't at all clear in his own comments. He may have been incorrect, or may have framed something in a way he thought proper without realizing how it might be understood - but it's not at all evident that he was being dishonest.
My question for you is, if this system called Disco is so fundamentally unjust that you have to continually rail at every opportunity against the "powers-that-be" and in ways that attribute false guilt to a whole bunch of innocent people...if things are that bad, why are you still here? Are you not perpetuating the injustice but continuing to participate in the system?
Akuma, your role in this community - constructively, not destructively, performed - is very important. That's why I've never ignored you. We need this sort of sensitivity to justice in community relations, even if we don't always agree with you on how to implement it structurally. But the manner in which you operate now, and have operated for some time, endangers that role, which means it endangers the good of the community and all those who participate in good faith. For their sake, please restrain yourself. For my part, I'll continue to listen to you, at least for now.
Trev
Wow. Very well said Treve
Should flying a cap require a guard ID? - Akumabito - 10-23-2008
' Wrote:Not to mention informing the community of the 'evil' of factions and stating that restrictions on roleplay of any sort are going to kill the server.
Sigh* Why don't you read what I actually said.
The factions here are one body in many ways, so that's how I refer to them. I could pull out Unselies old "we talk on skype, we know who you are post", but even without that it's clear that the factions, especially the official factions are, for purposes of regulating their good or bad effect on the server, one body of faction leaders.
You can't say "It's not my faction" when you support other factions actions that are over the line.
I used to fly with Kuraine from time to time, I know how he is. I don't think he's a bad guy but he isn't the shining beacon some think he is. He takes the easy path sometimes, like in tying actions to a ZOI but not defining it, and honestly not defining the ZOI is the part he can use to his advantage. He also made the statement in my sig knowing it wasn't a fact, because it was the easy way to deflect concerns that these guard ID's were going to faction only, at least as far as factions whoring people out of them is.
' Wrote:Are you not perpetuating the injustice but continuing to participate in the system?
Are you serious? I'm doing all I can to make things fair, because I know what it's like to be steamrolled by the system. Sanctioned unfairly for revenge, pvp whored by factions, threatened with banning over and over for talking about it ion the server, have faction leaders spew streams of personal insults I get blamed for because obviously I have some mind control that made them do it.
I'm going to continue to try to make this server better until the factions have there way and get me banned.
Should flying a cap require a guard ID? - bluntpencil2001 - 10-23-2008
Please...
We, those involved with factions, as a whole, probably don't fit into one mold, especially Unseelie's. Or do you believe everything Unseelie says?
Should flying a cap require a guard ID? - Qunitinius~Verginix - 10-23-2008
I dont think it should be a requirement of having a Guard ID to fly a capital ship. ZOI should be self explanatory, if you don't see the NPC's there you don't belong.
Verg
Should flying a cap require a guard ID? - beander2 - 10-23-2008
' Wrote:The factions here are one body in many ways, so that's how I refer to them. I could pull out Unselies old "we talk on skype, we know who you are post", but even without that it's clear that the factions, especially the official factions are, for purposes of regulating their good or bad effect on the server, one body of faction leaders.
I'm going to continue to try to make this server better until the factions have there way and get me banned.
No - absolutely incorrect. There is no one body of faction leaders, even in perception - I don't even know most of them, and I've led factions since March. Oh, and if there's an "in" group of leaders, I've never been part of it, either. (I didn't even have Skype until a couple of months ago.) There are groups of people who've gotten to know each other over time, as with any community, and while that lends toward increased trust, it doesn't equate to favoritism.
Moreover, I've never regulated or attempted to regulate anyone outside of our own player faction, and I've tried as best to work through any disadvantages I've encountered otherwise. I've received no favoritism that I'm aware of, and any respect has been earned, not inherited.
I am not the only faction leader who falls into this description, so your presumption, in short, is deeply flawed.
And let me caution you: do not dismiss this just because I've only led a "trader faction" or mining guild; if you lend my view less credibility for that reason - that is, if you take it less seriously because it's not a house or major combat faction - you fall into the same mistake of which you've accused the others.
I know of nothing that can get you banned from the forums other than your own behavior; I don't want you banned, as I've indicated above. Your role is key, but don't screw it up.
Should flying a cap require a guard ID? - Akumabito - 10-23-2008
' Wrote:No - absolutely incorrect. There is no one body of faction leaders, even in perception
Not true, in my perception there is, just as indies are spoke of as one group, then subdivided into cap whores and lolers by the faction leaders using this as an excuse to justify a power grab.
This whole guard ID for cap ship scheme is a result of that. Although it's put forward as applying to everyone, in actuality i believe it's thought it will burden the indie more, and drive them out of cap ships, because there is, I believe, a resentful attitude by factions toward indies here. The problem is it won't work. If someone is willing to powertrade for a week for a cap, they'll power mission for a week for the ID. Nothing will change, you will see the occasional indie who dares to fly a cap, and some other scheme to prevent that will follow.
' Wrote:I know of nothing that can get you banned from the forums other than your own behavior;
Of course, I could be a good little indie and know my place, and then I wouldn't be threatened with banning, right?
' Wrote:I dont think it should be a requirement of having a Guard ID to fly a capital ship. ZOI should be self explanatory, if you don't see the NPC's there you don't belong.
Verg
It's more complex than that. If an outcast group of dessies raids New York, people will scream "your out of your ZOI! and others will say "outcast NPC's are in NY, so it's kosher!"
There are a lot of fringe ZOI area's just waiting for this kind of trouble. That's why it needs defined.
Should flying a cap require a guard ID? - Niezck - 10-23-2008
Why must you pick apart the two sentences in Trevelyan's post that seem "wrong" to you while seemingly dismissing the totally valid and relevant points that disprove your argument? You talk about fairness yet you fail t show it even in your replies.
Thusly, I find your points invalid.
Should flying a cap require a guard ID? - Akumabito - 10-23-2008
' Wrote:Why must you pick apart the two sentences in Trevelyan's post that seem "wrong" to you while seemingly dismissing the totally valid and relevant points that disprove your argument? You talk about fairness yet you fail t show it even in your replies.
Thusly, I find your points invalid.
Why didn't you quote my points in their entirety in your reply?
I guess that makes your reply invalid.
Quit being silly, I answered the main points in his reply.
Should flying a cap require a guard ID? - Niezck - 10-23-2008
Perhaps because I'm a big evil faction lover and I hate being fair to people?
I continually find your points invalid.
Should flying a cap require a guard ID? - Ash - 10-23-2008
Question one.
Answer: Yes
Question two.
Dodgy question there mate, you kinda lead that one, but they should be well defined nonetheless.