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+--- Thread: Zoner/Zoner Guard IDs (/showthread.php?tid=22635)
Zoner/Zoner Guard IDs - Bluntage - 07-11-2009
Sorry my bad then. Still his subordinate though. Still shows he's exaggerating what I said.
Implying that my parents are brother and sister in or out of role-play is still wrong. Too far. People have been sanctioned for less.
Zoner/Zoner Guard IDs - Malaclypse 666 - 07-11-2009
Folks, I believe there's a Saturday deadline on voting for or against this "first draft proposal", and none too soon, it would appear. Getting way too personal, on all sides.
Have you voted? Good
Have you expressed a considered opinion? Good
Have you replayed the same song a few too many times? Happens.
We will appreciate your feedback, if constructive and reasonable.
If you haven't voted, please reread the original proposal, and do so by EOB on Saturday...
Thanks!
Mal
Zoner/Zoner Guard IDs - Bluntage - 07-11-2009
That said...90 votes. Hardly enough people to draw any significant data from.
Zoner/Zoner Guard IDs - Skysurfer - 07-11-2009
I like this idea as a band-aid fix, but I have some ideas that make a whole lot more sense than the Guardian ID's being watered down versions of the Non-Guardian versions.
Zoner/Zoner Guard IDs - FraserTE - 07-11-2009
' Wrote:I like this idea as a band-aid fix, but I have some ideas that make a whole lot more sense than the Guardian ID's being watered down versions of the Non-Guardian versions.
How about not be able to land in New York ? NL Berlin New Tokyo ??
Cause i refuse to go all the way the hell around when i can just slightly house space for ma smuggling.
i really don't go to new york unless i am running Artifacts for corsairs
Besides i heard your qq about zoner guard beeing to easy to get
How about the people who busted there ass to get zoner guard b4 it was easy hmm ??
U just gona tell them piss off o well i dun care about your effort ?
Zoner/Zoner Guard IDs - Quorg - 07-11-2009
I have to ask- where do we draw the line on what is an acceptable level of wiggle room for players? Should we crack down on Junker Guard smugglers next?
By squeezing the loltraders out of one place, they're simply going to move to another.
This proposal is simply too simplistic and, dare I say, lazy of an approach to actually fix the problems mentioned in the first post.
Teaching good roleplay to most and weeding out the few stubbornly awful players on an individual basis might not be the "easy" way out (like changing a few words on an ID is), but unlike the proposal of this thread, it will actually add to the RP experience on the server.
If you want to increase the number of traders flying for Corporations, simply add more profitable routes for those corporations. Traders win, house lawfuls have more people to interact with on a regular basis, and pirates have more potential stalking zones.
Now, instead of taking a dump on the wiggle room of legitimate players, you're enhancing the gameplay.
That wasn't so hard, was it?
Zoner/Zoner Guard IDs - Benjamin - 07-11-2009
I think the point is, if you add more good corporation routes, then all the corporations will get their one new route, and zoners will get all of those new routes, and every single other trade route in the game.
Zoner/Zoner Guard IDs - Jinx - 07-11-2009
just a comment on "why it doesn t work to regulate things in RP"
one of those reasons is ... well, practicly also the problem tha arises with new very complex ID rules. - and the problem is "uncertainty".
ask a random police IDed / IFFed player of none to low popularity on the server in game. - ask him what EXACTLY he is allowed to do and w hat he is not allowed to do. -
my prediction is that :
- he doesn t know the "kill on sight list" back to front
- he doesn t know how to deal and behave to many factions ( zoners included )
- he doesn t know who is on the list of traders that are allowed commodities usually considered contraband
- for that matter - i daresay, he won t even know what goods are considered contraband ( with all the wars included )
BUT
- he will be very afraid to do anything "wrong" and be bashed with the ban hammer.
that is a situation we brought upon ourselves. - and such complex ID rules don t really help the matter too much, however useful they are. - but fact is.... in that state of disco - you need a manual as big as the "word 2007 manual" to fly around without the fear of being reported and sanctioned for the most rediculous things.
and people are unsure.
an example:
- yesterday my gaian met a BHG. - now the BHG is not supposed to attack pirates without a forum bounty. ( another one of those rediculous and silly rules )
- i told him that there is no bounty on me. ( cause i think i do know the current bounties, but even i had to dig around quite a lot. - and the BHG offers blanket bounties, but he was in a gunboat and i was in a bomber .... and when you re in a gunboat, the bounties do NOT include bomber sized ships.
- he got quite upset and attacked anyway ( without a forum bounty )
now - ( cause we re all paranoid - thanks to the complex rules ) i have of course recorded the whole situation.... and i guess i could report it as pvp abuse.
and the result is
- this player might have been received a lesson
- this player will either fear sanctions so much in the future that his RP will utterly fail, or he looses his motivation to actually contribute to the servers population - or he "breaks", cause t here s nothing more to loose anyway once you ve been sanctioned.
all not very beneficial. - but one thing would certainly happen.... he ll become aware that only reading the ID ( he insisted that the ID said "can attack pirates" does NOT suffice ) and that - in order NOT to get sanctioned... you need to dedicate a lot of your spare time NOT playing - ... but actually learning the rules, its loopholes, read the sanctions to know about predicents, read the whole frelling discussions searching for any "light green" texts etc.
the zoner ID is something i basicly agree with - but personally, i d love to see it as a GUIDELINE - not a rule. - often, zoners are simply not aware that t hey are doing something wrong. - but authority must be EARNED it cannot be applied artificially.
i also wish there d be a lot less sanctions and a lot more often .... just a good talk in bastille ( and only in bastille for the time of the chat - cause there s just less distraction there ) - many people listen - but they don t listen to patronizing tones ( which i m guilty about, too in the yesterdays incident ) - but they often listen to a good advice. ... much more than complex rules and sanctions.
and i predict that sanctions will increase with such complex IDs ( who knows if zoners are the only ID that becomes so complex - many a factions "believe" that they also deserve such IDs to "get rid of their bad elements" )
personally, i am happy that the zoners are popular. ( in contrast to many others ) - cause that means that the faction as a whole can move things around. - it has "power" cause it has the people. - look at kusari for example. - a graveyard for most of the time ( at least compared to many other parts of sirius )
when the KSP vanished from one day to another - i think not many would even notice. - but if the zoners vanished from one day to another ( all the zoner players ) - it would affect the server big time. or in short - i wish not to scare the zoner population away.
Zoner/Zoner Guard IDs - Bluntage - 07-11-2009
Great post Jinx.
Zoner/Zoner Guard IDs - Clarkie - 07-11-2009
Well said Jinx,
Furthermore, with regards to a second and any further draft of these proposals, its my belief that a yes vote of 75% or more would have to be gained before these proposals are considered. Alienating more than a quarter of the Zoners on the server just wouldnt do.
Personally, I'll be voting yes if the amendments I suggested (or something similar) are included in the next draft.