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+---- Thread: Unofficial Factions on Discovery Forums (/showthread.php?tid=61274)
Unofficial Factions on Discovery Forums - Mark_Brown - 06-15-2011
Disadvantages if policy is relaxed
- Official factions could lose player's to Unofficial factions
- Unofficial Factions will no longer have to play along the 8 second ruling of posting there Unoffiical Faction RP, the 8 second rule constitutes everyones day to day forum trolling, if the reader isn't caught into something good within 8 seconds, the page is exited and your faction stays empty. (I'm a web designer in Real Life and know this to be true and why most Business's go bust because they believe getting the best logo will win some bodys eyes.. If your designer says so, sack him/her it is not true, your reader must be impressed within 8 seconds of reading into an artical or you have lost them)
- Unofficial factions won't struggle in collecting members via there post or having to sit hours on end in-game trying to recruit everyone without a Recruitment Thread or Questionaire to possibly find out whos the best person to RP that role or does this person know enough about the company..
Prior Example (Communications Channel OSC Dr Winchester) the guy who broke LN Embargo Laws cause we can't have a recruitment thread or find out what he knows.
Unofficial Factions on Discovery Forums - Ingenious - 06-15-2011
' Wrote:I have made topics, spent hours trying to civilly discuss and brainstorm ways to improve upon issues and complications here, but I am met with trolling, flaming, and general aversion to any form of change suggested. It comes to a point where after 50+ well thought out, reasonable, multiparagraph posts are rebuked, one feels the need to be a little more straightforward.
Unofficial Factions on Discovery Forums - Athenian - 06-15-2011
' Wrote:I have made topics, spent hours trying to civilly discuss and brainstorm ways to improve upon issues and complications here, but I am met with trolling, flaming, and general aversion to any form of change suggested. It comes to a point where after 50+ well thought out, reasonable, multiparagraph posts are rebuked, one feels the need to be a little more straightforward.
I was being blunt in the post you are apparently warning me for in that fancy green text, trying to show in a humorous manner how silly a restriction like this is. Official factions have extremely easy responsibilities, yet they receive an extremely disproportionate amount of power. Now a group of players who create a faction and don't wish to go through the process to have the O word slapped in front of them can't even ask for people to join? Really?
Hence the comment, now it's a sanctionable offense just to ask for friends to play with. Don't tell me that you don't see what I mean.
You imply that we sanction people for playing with their friends, which is ludicrous. We have a set of rules; we are reviewing the rules.
Your post was hysterical, over the top, sensationalistic, insulting, wrong and, worse, not funny.
The thread sets out how what we are discussing, and I asked for statements listing advantages and disadvantages. Do that, or don't post.
Unofficial Factions on Discovery Forums - Politus - 06-15-2011
' Wrote:You imply that we sanction people for playing with their friends, which is ludicrous. We have a set of rules; we are reviewing the rules.Incorrect. Please don't twist the words of others and then get into a tizzy about it. There was no implication, there was an outright statement that looking for friends to play with -not playing with friends as you said- is a sanctionable offense.
Your post was hysterical, over the top, sensationalistic, insulting, wrong and, worse, not funny.
The thread sets out how what we are discussing, and I asked for statements listing advantages and disadvantages. Do that, or don't post.
In fact, let's break it down.
Quote:Discovery Freelancer: Where looking for some friends to play with is a sanctionable offense. '¢
You see the operative term, looking. I see it as well. Now, assuming that Hexx is operating under standard conventions of the English language, and that you and I both understand and agree upon these standard conventions of the English language, his "hysterical, over the top, sensationalist*, wrong" and "not funny," post clearly has an entirely different meaning from the one you chose to prosecute.
It does not imply anything about the administration sanctioning people for playing with their friends; it takes a different perspective on the obvious topic at hand, that the Administration has a 3 year rule in place banning unofficial factions from recruiting -that is, the process of attracting, screening, and selecting qualified people for a job- which Hexx disagrees with.
The different perspective cast by Hexx's post is that unofficial factions recruiting is, in essence, equivalent people looking for friends to play with who share or would like to share a similar RP vision and/or style. In short, this view is that unofficials recruiting is the act of "looking for some friends to play with," mentioned in Hexx's post.
Now that we have all of the components of the post, let's put it into syllogism form, so that nothing can be misinterpreted so that no flamefests ensue, because I respect you and the dignity of this discussion.
Premise 1: Discovery Freelancer has a 3-year old policy which bans Unofficial Factions from recruiting, an act which is considered to be a sanctionable offense.
Premise 2: Unofficial factions recruiting is an act equivalent to the act of "looking for some friends to play with."
Conclusion: Discovery Freelancer is a place "Where looking for some friends to play with is a sanctionable offense."
Under this train of thought, while the rule is in place and you do indeed enforce the rules, the rule is argued to be preposterous because of the stated implication of the rule, that looking for friends to play with -not playing with friends- is a sanctionable offense.
Now, can we please discuss this with a modicum of civility? Or may be we ought to take a break from this discussion, because both sides of this discussion have thrown some pretty heavily loaded words which I'm certain will be regretted in time, no?
Thank you, and god bless.
:mellow:
Unofficial Factions on Discovery Forums - Athenian - 06-15-2011
' Wrote:Incorrect. Please don't twist the words of others and then get into a tizzy about it. There was no implication, there was an outright statement that looking for friends to play with -not playing with friends as you said- is a sanctionable offense.
In fact, let's break it down.
You see the operative term, looking. I see it as well. Now, assuming that Hexx is operating under standard conventions of the English language, and that you and I both understand and agree upon these standard conventions of the English language, his "hysterical, over the top, sensationalist*, wrong" and "not funny," post clearly has an entirely different meaning from the one you chose to prosecute.
It does not imply anything about the administration sanctioning people for playing with their friends; it takes a different perspective on the obvious topic at hand, that the Administration has a 3 year rule in place banning unofficial factions from recruiting -that is, the process of attracting, screening, and selecting qualified people for a job- which Hexx disagrees with.
The different perspective cast by Hexx's post is that unofficial factions recruiting is, in essence, equivalent people looking for friends to play with who share or would like to share a similar RP vision and/or style. In short, this view is that unofficials recruiting is the act of "looking for some friends to play with," mentioned in Hexx's post.
Now that we have all of the components of the post, let's put it into syllogism form, so that nothing can be misinterpreted so that no flamefests ensue, because I respect you and the dignity of this discussion.
Premise 1: Discovery Freelancer has a 3-year old policy which bans Unofficial Factions from recruiting, an act which is considered to be a sanctionable offense.
Premise 2: Unofficial factions recruiting is an act equivalent to the act of "looking for some friends to play with."
Conclusion: Discovery Freelancer is a place "Where looking for some friends to play with is a sanctionable offense."
Under this train of thought, while the rule is in place and you do indeed enforce the rules, the rule is argued to be preposterous because of the stated implication of the rule, that looking for friends to play with -not playing with friends- is a sanctionable offense.
Now, can we please discuss this with a modicum of civility? Or may be we ought to take a break from this discussion, because both sides of this discussion have thrown some pretty heavily loaded words which I'm certain will be regretted in time, no?
Thank you, and god bless.
:mellow:
Having had my own recruitment thread closed when I was running an unoffical faction, I can tell you that it didn't feel like I had been sanctioned in the sense with which we use the word "sanction" here. Here, sanction means a punishment.
We don't sanction people for trying to recruit on the forums. "Sanctionable offense " is hysterical, and implies that we punish people. The ban on people recruiting on the forums is a posting guideline, one which is being reviewed. Reviewing things would be a hell of a lot easier if we didn't have people misrepresenting how the community and running of the server functions. His post misrepresents it.
If all he wanted to say required you to interpret stuff for him maybe you could do that for all his posts when his ability to cast a different perspective doesn't run beyond one-liners designed to troll what he clearly regards as an administration that manage the server in a manner with which he regards as callous, punitive and authoritarian.
The point is taken though. I think what he meant was that recruitment by all groups here is to be encouraged because we are all here to have fun and playing co-operatively is one way for people to have (more) fun. See, that wasn't hard was it? No snide sarcasm; no derogatory remark aimed at portraying the community as disciplinarian. Tone changes everything.
Back on topic.
Unofficial Factions on Discovery Forums - Divine - 06-15-2011
' Wrote:...What's up, he was telling the truth. You try as a group of independents to find other people for your group on this forum, and according to the forum rules, such an act is considered against the rules, thus being "sanctioned" by removing/locking said thread.
Here, sanction means a punishment.
We don't sanction people for trying to recruit on the forums.
...
Maybe you feel different about that, doesn't mean "your" view is the view of everyone else on it.
But reading your last two posts, I'll put it blunt...
Make a decision for your own, and stop asking others as it sounds that any other opinion as the one you already share is not welcome.
Heck, even warning him in an official act, for posting what he thought on the topic, is quite ridicilous.
But hell who I'm and why I dare to've an opinion...
And ye, back on topic.
Unofficial Factions on Discovery Forums - Backo - 06-15-2011
Some unofficial factions actually bring cool ideas to the table. It's a shame people are against giving them a single sub-forum to show their ideas and recruit followers. I remember how [TiP] started, as a simple unofficial smuggler faction idea.
P.S. It still is unofficial, as far as I know.
Unofficial Factions on Discovery Forums - Athenian - 06-16-2011
' Wrote:What's up, he was telling the truth. You try as a group of independents to find other people for your group on this forum, and according to the forum rules, such an act is considered against the rules, thus being "sanctioned" by removing/locking said thread.
Maybe you feel different about that, doesn't mean "your" view is the view of everyone else on it.
But reading your last two posts, I'll put it blunt...
Make a decision for your own, and stop asking others as it sounds that any other opinion as the one you already share is not welcome.
Heck, even warning him in an official act, for posting what he thought on the topic, is quite ridicilous.
But hell who I'm and why I dare to've an opinion...
And ye, back on topic.
If it was such a ludicrous and ridiculous rule, then why is it only now that this is being pointed out and in a thread that I started? If it was so tangibly ridiculous, why not raise the issue before now? I think some people like to use any discussion to ridicule the system in place (clouding issues with other ones) and I think that is what the one-liner post was doing - ridiculing Discovery as faceless and disciplinarian. He may have had an element of truth in it, but not everyone thinks the same. But anyway...
My own opinion is that the policy is unenforceable and, especially now that factions have their own sub forums, ripe for removal unless the rule on one ID per faction was altered to allow more factions to become official. Recruiting is a perk. Official factions get perks. They may not like losing this perk. If more people could access these perks, then possibly more people will benefit from them. Or the perks may become without value, who knows.
That makes a new set of problems (it has and it will), so the question is what are we trading here? What is lost and gained by removing the restriction? Not everyone thinks the same on this.
If it is removed, there would still have to be guidelines (call them rules if you prefer) to prevent forums being spammed or bumped endlessly. My own thinking though is that if someone can attract members, they should be allowed to do so. (A kind of free market).
This is an opportunity for people to suggest new ways to do things and influence decisions before any decision is made.
Unofficial Factions on Discovery Forums - Politus - 06-16-2011
I think that, with regards to the argument, is that recruitment needs to stop being looked at as a perk for officials and more like a right for all factions; You're not a faction, official or unofficial, without members, and the best way to get members is to recruit.
Officials already have multiple perks, though this can be argued; FR5, control over faction tech, and functioning as the established roleplay for a given faction. Officials ARE the faction, so to speak. Unofficials, on the other hand, have none of that going for them, and for the most part live and die on the strength of their RP and ability to attract members without attracting members, so to speak.
Some do this by being formed among already existing circles of friends, a sort of meta-faction that already exists and sometimes takes multiple inRP forms throughout existence. Others do it through the sheer willpower of their founders to make an active presence in-game and on the forums.
Still other unofficial groups, despite a strong start for a week or two, will die, because it is indeed hard to gain members without being allowed to attract them.
I think that I best phrased the argument in my opening paragraph, and will repeat myself as such: You're not a faction, official or unofficial, without members, and the best way to get members is to recruit. You can restrict it to a specific unofficial faction forum, but I think it really does make it easier to exist if a group can invite people in with a welcoming logo and a standardized application, no?
The right to recruitment will still be available to officials, no one is taking their jealously guarded perk away, but I think it's about time that the unofficials, who do make up a good portion of the server's activity, be allowed this one extremely basic action.
Unofficial Factions on Discovery Forums - SpaceTime - 06-16-2011
I don't know what it says in the previous 120 replies, I will just give my input in the actual topic of this thread.
The fact that official factions got their private spot in the forums, it gives them extraordinary benefits over unofficial ones. Allowing unofficial factions to recruit in the forums is the least thing we can do to help them. I wish Discovery was more open to new ideas, concepts, etc which can be brought by unofficial factions as well. Being overprotective with the official ones, isn't always healthy - or better say it was back at 2007-08, not now.