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+--- Thread: Piracy according to the rules (/showthread.php?tid=7894)
Piracy according to the rules - Raekur - 08-16-2008
' Wrote:I can see your point here.
In-fact it is exactly what I do. But the thing is the rules basically state "Halt" or "Stop" doesn't cut it as a demand. Where in everyone elses eyes its a perfectly valid one. Also the RP factors in here, and what RP stands for.
And the "Waiting to scan someone before you could ask them to stop" rule you stated, would not be very logical as per the games structure and the way its played. Besides, how would you police it.
The whole thing here is, the traders have all the rules in favor of them. They even get a waver with the whole PVP rule, stated previously in this post. Which I also find stupid. Now, if we can't stop the trader by cutting his run by killing him, or by telling him to stop verbally, we don't have many options. Often by the time we make our demand, by writing it in RP (Which often takes a long time...) they have made their escape. Players resort to "2 mill or die" And I have heard from many people..."That is ooRP, I refuse to pay unless its written in RP.
So by allowing us the right to "Halt" as a valid demand, the trader will have more incentive to pay, as they know their fate depends on whether they cruise or sit still...
Pirates have a purpose too. We ain't just a happy bunch of PvP whores.
EDIT: Sorry about the double post. I hit the wrong button:(
I do understand the desire for wanting to give traders more incentive to want to pay.
But I also understand this, life as a pirate is supposed to be difficult not easy.
Also keep into consideration that any such rule should be applied equally on both sides.
If pirates are permitted to destroy a trader because his demand to halt was not obeyed.
Then lawfuls should be able to destroy a smuggler after either verifying that he is carrying contriband OR if he has a history of being a smuggler and does not halt if ordered regardless of what he is currently carrying.
Be careful what you wish for, you may have it used against you.
Piracy according to the rules - ScornStar - 08-16-2008
' Wrote:I do understand the desire for wanting to give traders more incentive to want to pay.
But I also understand this, life as a pirate is supposed to be difficult not easy.
Also keep into consideration that any such rule should be applied equally on both sides.
If pirates are permitted to destroy a trader because his demand to halt was not obeyed.
Then lawfuls should be able to destroy a smuggler after either verifying that he is carrying contriband OR if he has a history of being a smuggler and does not halt if ordered regardless of what he is currently carrying.
Be careful what you wish for, you may have it used against you.
Lawfuls can. And do. I done fault the Lawfuls. I dont say take thier freedoms. I say dont take the Pirates either.
ATTACK ON HAULER 01
Piracy according to the rules - BaconSoda - 08-16-2008
' Wrote:I do understand the desire for wanting to give traders more incentive to want to pay.
But I also understand this, life as a pirate is supposed to be difficult not easy.
Also keep into consideration that any such rule should be applied equally on both sides.
If pirates are permitted to destroy a trader because his demand to halt was not obeyed.
Then lawfuls should be able to destroy a smuggler after either verifying that he is carrying contriband OR if he has a history of being a smuggler and does not halt if ordered regardless of what he is currently carrying.
Be careful what you wish for, you may have it used against you.
At the moment, there is no incentive for traders to stop or pay. They can continue running their trade routes exempt from the PvP rules, and they can simply respawn, where it seems they lost less money (but they lost profits due to lost time, people don't understand that).
If pirating life is already difficult, why make it harder? The Advanced Train has an armor equal to the Rheinland Gunboat, and most of the traders out here fly it. A pirates life is no longer hard here, but it's ridiculous. I used to fly my pirates because I found the utmost enjoyment in the RP of a chase, but now Traders aren't RPing at all. I don't know if it is this declaration, or if it's the major decline of trading factions (Gateway, RepEx, Synth Foods - All inactive), but most Traders I find have simply stopped RPing, even people who are here on the forums. Now it is more work than fun to pirate without a group of three or more people....
Lawfuls do that already. They have always done that. I know that having played in the BPA for quite some time, and I thoroughly enjoyed my time playing the BPA. Not only that, but they can do that with Cruisers and Battleships, while Pirates are restricted to Gunboats and below.
Piracy according to the rules - jpo - 08-17-2008
Quote:Usually you would contribute something serious and useful. But I feel you pain. Along with many others.
I would like to hear the response from administrators, to see how they feel about the rule revision, and possible change for 4.85.
Because quite frankly...The rule is stupid and contradictory to the game, mod and servers objective...24/7 100% RP.
I have had several pirate encounters since I've been here only 2 have been roleplayed by the would be pirate. Just trowing that out there. I made a macro on my flight controller for when I get hailed so I don't have to waste time typing.
I will follow any rules set forth in order to play here, and everyone should make that decision for themselves. However if you cant even role play a simple encounter on an RP server you're already not following the rules, and doesent give others much incentive to follow them either.
For the record I am not complaining about anything that has been done to me or anyone in this thread. I have only been pirated once and killed once in $200 million worth of smuggling. The guy that pirated me called it insurance. I thought that was such good RP that I asked for the premium policy. The guy that got my ship got lucky. Lost maybe 10 million total.
If you just tell me halt and shoot a CD at me thats obviously hostile intent and im not going to stop if im in a ship with cm's unless I am outnumbered and outclassed. Wait a minute, thats brilliant RP, a smuggler who doesent like to lose his cargo. Now if you are RPing a pirate and youre playing by yourself in a vhf against a LL, dont expect to win, ever. If you are in a ship that can take out 440k hull then try it. If you are with another pirate one cover the trade lane/jump gate and one cover the freelancers. Thats RP. Stopping an empty freighter and asking for tax? thats not RP, not in the slightest. Well, it could be extortion but not piracy.
Which brings me to my second point, there is a subtle difference. If I get stopped by an NPC pirate, they arent role playing, they are following a script. They demand you drop ALL cargo. A pirate might ask for enough cargo to fill his hold in a real situation. A pirate might also ask for a reasonable amount of money also. However, if you were roleplaying a single pirate and you try to extort a large amount of money from someone with a large amount of money, you would expect almost immediate repurcussions. You would expect to be jumped soon as retaliation. For example:
People rob banks all the time. Lots of times they get away with it. However, remember the incident in California in the 90's where the guys wore full body armor? They tried to take out an entity MUCH larger than themselves and they got killed, even in full body armor. They were obviously expecting severe retaliation.
Anyway the point to this drawn out post (sorry) is that you reap what you sow. If you poorly RP a pirate expect poor RP back. Conversely, if you poorly RP a trader/smuggler, expect the pirate to follow the rules to a bare minimum, and indeed the letter of the law and not the spirit as previously noted. We can all have fun here, we just need to keep an open mind and RP it out.
And for the record, im for any change in the semantics of the rule that give the pirates more leeway. Contrary to popular belief its no fun to just be able to trade without limitation.
Piracy according to the rules - Coin - 08-17-2008
I have been on disco for about six months now, and i'm trading to raise the money to register a faction. Im not interested at all in buying an uber-dread-juggernaut-battlestar-cruiser.
I've been pirated a handful of times, and for me, when a pirate says 'stop or die' from 5k away, I run like hell. If he gets lucky in the asteroid field, and actually gets within CD range, i spam CM's until im away, or im stopped.
At this point, the RP begins.
'damn' or 'This is the captain of the <ship>. Stand down, pilot. We gotta talk to this pirate before continuing'
I will then talk to the pirate, alert to two possibilites:
1. i can talk down the price, alert him to alternative rewards (like the story of the three billygoats - 'oh noes, Mr troll (pirate), u dont want to eat (tax) me, you want to eat my brother (trader), he's much tastier')
2. see if i can trick him and get away again (and try to avoid him in the future)
if i've been stopped, i see no problem with paying, and if i escape again, but he catches me up, i see no problem with him destroying me...
if a pirate asks for 1m, i pay up immediately, no questions asked.
if a pirate RP's better than '2m or die' (seven characters is NOT rp imo), then i'll pay
but if he's trundling along behind me at 5k, whining that i gotta stop... pfft - MAKE me stop, and i'll respect you in the morning.
Piracy according to the rules - SigCorps - 08-17-2008
From a traders perspective I think the pirates need to be a tad bit more specific in their halt or die commands. Now if i am the only one in the area, then yes you are talking to me, but please atleast be on my radar. But if I am inbetween trade lanes and there are 5 or 6 of us and someon yells halt or stop then do not get all upset when I do not stop.
And if you do disrupt my trade lane and can not stop me from getting to cruise then thats on you. It's your job to try and stop me and my job to keep my credits, cargo and skin intact. Now if you disrupt me and it is obvious that you can tear me into little peices then I will happily considder what ever offer you present. Thats good RP.
Now I have only had one opportunity to be stopped and the pirate in question was after bigger game then my little AT. The pirate was excellent ar RP and stopped his primary target with a well placed CD and then demanded payment. Not sure if he got his cedits, I had cruised well passed all the excitment by that point, but it was a good RP.
I used to play Eve online and I was incarge of exploration and the movement of small costly items for my Corp. So I used to run afoul of PC pirates all the time. They tried to capture me and I tried to keep away. It was awsome, but if I have to stop if you shout "stop or die" from 10K+ away then whats the point.
Pirating was never ment to be easy, neither is trading. I avoid some of the best trade routs so I do not have to deal with pirates. I have found if I stay off the the main lanes then I am left in peace. Just like they suggest to taders to travel in packs , then so should pirates. If you have one ship making the demands and another covering the trader, then how could I get away. If you travel by yourself then you risk not being able to do what you want.
So I ask if you want me to stop then atleast be within radar range and say my name. Even better use a private channel. Do not get angry when I try to run, just as I will not get angry if you shoot at me for running. Also try to make a reasonal demand. Since I am in an AT I only have a cargo hold of 525, so it's not like I am making millions on one run. I barely make that running the 8 stop circuit I do. Again i aviod the higher paying runs to avoid pirates. On last thing, if you do manage to stop me and make an even half way acceptable request, I'll be happy to pay. Thats the risk I run being a trader.