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+--- Thread: Remove Liberty from the Outcast Zone of Influence. (/showthread.php?tid=113474)
RE: Remove Liberty from the Outcast Zone of Influence. - Garrett Jax - 03-23-2014
For what it's worth, this is my take:
If Outcast cap players provided any sort of roleplay reason for being in Liberty, then I would tell all the other factions to just suck it up and deal with them. However, I have yet to hear any sort of decent roleplay from these players at all. They are there to pew, that is all. Many of them, I suspect, do not know how to roleplay and do not have a strong grasp of the rules. I .killed one a few days ago for instakilling a snub with his OC dread. I've bastilled many of them for the same reason.
I'm thinking these players start out as silent powertraders quickly earning the credits for their Cap ship and then wreck havoc upon all that they see. Since most of their targets are in New York, that is where they go. If quanity of players is preferable over quality of rp, then keep them there. If you want to start enforcing a higher standard of rp, then you have a couple options.
1. Use the RP route as Divine suggested. I agree with Divine that RP consequences should be tried first, but that would require Hackers, Rogues, Junkers and Outcasts to start working together to FR5 these players.
2. Modifiy the Outcast ID to restrict caps to specified systems. This should be a last resort imo.
It may be that many of you don't mind the poor quality rp these players bring and that having anything to do, is better than having nothing to do. If that's the case, then that's fine. Myself, personally, I would walk away a little happier from a good rp experience than a quick gank of the same old Outcast dreads.
RE: Remove Liberty from the Outcast Zone of Influence. - Govedo13 - 03-23-2014
In order to have quality Rp 2 conditions appeal:
1. To have active players that play the game.
2. To motivate those to provide quality Rp.
Your suggestions are to punish them for not providing the said quality Rp via FR 5 or to force them to leave the game via ID nerf.
GG.
Your kind of thinking works if it is 2010 and the server is 195/200 24/7
Devs and admins should just change a lot in their attitude or soon the server would be so empty that the same people that cry for nerf now would seek the noob dreads in order not to Rp to themselves.
RE: Remove Liberty from the Outcast Zone of Influence. - Altejago - 03-23-2014
Bob,
Back when I lead LR- we had a criminal government style chat where we discussed these things.
The trouble is the excess paper work you lot have to do when three of our factions process multiple FR5's, not too mention the amount of work you're expecting us to do to ensure our FR5's are adequate enough.
If one FR5 is denied, then that leaves open the door for troublesome gits in their OC ships to utilize that base and most of the time flaunt the fact they can dock there despite the fact the other 2 groups (Junkers, LR and LH I'm talking about here) have FR5'd these goons.
Make it so the Caps cannot come to Liberty and we can compromise and allow OC to pirate here.
RE: Remove Liberty from the Outcast Zone of Influence. - Garrett Jax - 03-23-2014
(03-23-2014, 10:45 PM)Govedo13 Wrote: In order to have quality Rp 2 conditions appeal:
1. To have active players that play the game.
2. To motivate those to provide quality Rp.
Your suggestions are to punish them for not providing the said quality Rp via FR 5 or to force them to leave the game via ID nerf.
GG.
Your kind of thinking works if it is 2010 and the server is 195/200 24/7
Devs and admins should just change a lot in their attitude or soon the server would be so empty that the same people that cry for nerf now would seek the noob dreads in order not to Rp to themselves.
Quote:I mean 3 simple steps would fix the server really fast:
1: Delete 1/3 of the systems while making clever System layout that allows interaction and fights.
2: Give the factions more options and extras combined with deep-in-RP actions with sever consequences.
3: Fix the trading system that promote hoarding of credits and introduce the economy of loss.
I wasn't suggesting any course of action, just presenting options. I've read over your suggestions, Govedo13. As far as 1 and 3, that's not my dept, but I've wracked my brain trying to figure out ways to reward official factions without taking away from indies. We were able to do that to some extent with Core 5 bases. If you have some specific suggestions on how to do this, I'm willing to entertain them.
RE: Remove Liberty from the Outcast Zone of Influence. - Hone - 03-24-2014
I definitely dont think outcasts should be removed from Liberty, as they are there in vanilla. Capships are another matter, but my question is; Why do you care?
Why do the LR care if OCs want to come shoot LN? Good for them it keeps the LN off the LR so they can pirate and smuggle in peace. Sure you can ban them if you wan,t but thatd just reduce activity. But hey, Id welcome them to have to come to Bretonia so I can have thier activity and have fun blowing up thier caps with my bombers...
RE: Remove Liberty from the Outcast Zone of Influence. - Altejago - 03-24-2014
W
(03-24-2014, 12:05 AM)Hone Wrote: I definitely dont think outcasts should be removed from Liberty, as they are there in vanilla. Capships are another matter, but my question is; Why do you care?
Why do the LR care if OCs want to come shoot LN? Good for them it keeps the LN off the LR so they can pirate and smuggle in peace. Sure you can ban them if you wan,t but thatd just reduce activity. But hey, Id welcome them to have to come to Bretonia so I can have thier activity and have fun blowing up thier caps with my bombers...
Let me put it in perspective for you with this analogy;
New Zealand is a strict anti-whaling country. We know the Japanese commit illegal whaling activities in and around our borders but yet we still allow Japanese people to come visit our country despite what their brethren to do our local wildlife. We don't want to support these people for committing what is a crime here, but we also don't want to close our doors to the Japanese tourists who provide local economies with outsourced cash.
So lets compare this to Rogues and Outcasts. We welcome trade with Outcasts, they make Rogues rich with their visits. But when they bring in their capital vessels (whalers) to cause untold grief and have nothing to contribute positively to the Rogues way of life because, simply put, they bring trouble and grief to our homes and stress Rogue supplies beyond their means. Why would New Zealanders supply Japaense whalers for activities we frown upon? Why would Rogues supply Outcast battleships who come and dominate a market which is meant to be only for Rogues/Hackers/Junkers?
The NPC's are in Liberty to protect the cardimine routes, note there are no Outcast bases in or near Liberty. Why would we be happy to supply Outcast capitals when we're hard done by supplying our own Scyllas? Outcasts are welcome to trade in Liberty, not fight a war hat Rogues aren't even involved in.
It's like saying Russian troops are fighting Americans on behalf of the Hells Angels. Russians offer the weapons (AK-47's) but aren't actually fighting Americans because they have not real need too.
(In making reference to Russia/America, I'm not actually meaning that this is the case but more that this is one way to look at it.)
RE: Remove Liberty from the Outcast Zone of Influence. - Eugen - 03-24-2014
i am also for the cap restrict (exept there is rp stuff happening like help out the LR in a big raid against the LN but only than!! ) outcast smugglers and other small crafts (maybe gunship) should be allowed since they were there from the begin of freelancer.
RE: Remove Liberty from the Outcast Zone of Influence. - Echo 7-7 - 03-24-2014
(03-23-2014, 10:07 PM)Nutline Wrote: ...
- T23 / T37 fights for OC's are over, devs put another system between 37/alpha
- OC's vs Corsair raids are over, we have plenty of systems full with rocks.
- Blood baths in O. Eta are over, for the same reason above
- We have an Outcast civil war, I've seen many OC's fighting each other (what the hell ...)
- Rheinland / Liberty raids are over (deactivated jumpgate ...)
[...]
...
1) Omicron-80 switched places with Omicron-81. Travel time through O-80 is much shorter - it's a mere 25 k between the Tau-37 and Omicron Alpha jump holes. Unless you're complaining about the system's dust field, you can't say that it's made travel in that region worse.
2) Omicron Beta has clear paths (exclusion zones) in the asteroids between the base and jump holes. Omicron Theta also has exclusion zones following the patrol paths through its asteroid fields. Are you saying that the dust clouds in Sigma-19 and Sigma-17 / a few k's of asteroids in Gamma are too restrictive for capital ship travel?
3) An Outcast civil war is something the players have instigated, so I don't see what that has to do with this discussion.
4) Rheinland / Liberty raids shouldn't directly involve Outcasts, unless you're talking about LN caps not having enough large targets to shoot at.
--
On the topic of the OP;
Removing Outcasts from Liberty completely just isn't going to happen - their presence in Liberty does go all the way back to securing their Cardamine smuggling routes in vanilla. However, open warfare with the forces of Liberty wasn't really an option, because the Outcasts don't have a large population, and it's better for their operations to stay under the radar, rather than attract attention. Therefore, the focus of the discussion (which has been pointed out already so I barely need to reiterate) is whether or not restrict Outcast capital ships from entering Liberty.
RE: Remove Liberty from the Outcast Zone of Influence. - Hone - 03-24-2014
(03-24-2014, 12:36 AM)Mr. Altejago Wrote: they bring trouble and grief to our homes
What Im saying though is the OC BSs arnt really hurting the rogues, they fight the LN and that distract the lawfuls from the rogues business. You say they take supplies/dominate a market, but the capitols arnt cutting in on the cardamine market, they're just killing your enemy, and the outcasts pay for thier supplies from you and the junkers, really just creating more of a market for you.
Sure INRP you could be pissed off at them enroaching on your turf, I understand that, but why not just keep it INRP? Thats what FR5s are for.
I mean OORP surely theres nothing really worth getting upset about here?
P.S: All buffer systems are terrible, just, so terrible. We just need players so much LESS spread out, not more.
RE: Remove Liberty from the Outcast Zone of Influence. - Altejago - 03-24-2014
What part of 'Rogue bases do not have the supplies needed to supply foreign capitals' did you not understand?
They're all rocks or makeshift rocks with scaffolding.