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+--- Thread: [Infopage] Battlegroup Harmony - Information and Feedback (/showthread.php?tid=135495)
RE: Battlegroup Harmony - Information and Feedback - Sombs - 06-11-2018
I've played on both sides by now and can tell it's very easy to not bring the fight to FP2. I think one of the most annoying mentalities is blue-hunters complaining about safe-zones in the game. When people stick to such safe zones, what do? Is getting that blue so important to want to try and change the game?
No.
I think people often forget that they literally cause people to stick to those safe zones. I rather have people stick to safe zones instead of not even logging at all - because everyone seems to value the numbers of people active on the server so much they don't care for what those people are actually doing.
Please try to not fix things that don't need to be fixed. Discovery is big enough, and it's a shame that the same people who demand the removal of systems also demand the removal of safe zones. The only thing more frustrating than seeing people hugging bases or combat-docking is getting seal-clubbed or ganked. Try to think of the other sides' perspective.
RE: Battlegroup Harmony - Information and Feedback - Antonio - 06-11-2018
(06-11-2018, 09:56 PM)Sombra Hookier Wrote: I've played on both sides by now and can tell it's very easy to not bring the fight to FP2. I think one of the most annoying mentalities is blue-hunters complaining about safe-zones in the game. When people stick to such safe zones, what do? Is getting that blue so important to want to try and change the game?
No.
I think people often forget that they literally cause people to stick to those safe zones. I rather have people stick to safe zones instead of not even logging at all - because everyone seems to value the numbers of people active on the server so much they don't care for what those people are actually doing.
Please try to not fix things that don't need to be fixed. Discovery is big enough, and it's a shame that the same people who demand the removal of systems also demand the removal of safe zones. The only thing more frustrating than seeing people hugging bases or combat-docking is getting seal-clubbed or ganked. Try to think of the other sides' perspective.
I'm sure Freeport 11 with 3 Zoner battleships fully armed with battleship weaponry was a wonderful "safe zone" for your Vagrant. I agree there should be safe zones, but they shouldn't be in activity hubs. Activity hubs are there for everyone, not just friendlies to the strongest solar nearby. It encourages circlejerking 24/7. You can't say it with a serious face that a small Freeport in Bering is supposed to be the most heavily defended place in the game.
Also I am perfectly fine with not removing any system from the game as long as the jumphole connection overhaul is executed correctly so the "discovery" and useless transit systems are fully out of the way. Another topic for another time.
RE: Battlegroup Harmony - Information and Feedback - Wesker - 06-11-2018
(06-11-2018, 09:31 PM)Skorak Wrote: Every fight I was in since the last time this was discussed has been had away from the junction.
See here's the issue.
Even if the base /is/ away from the junction, it's a recipe for disaster in every way for the offensive side. The reason this is so prominent in particular is because its the liberty playerbase, which musters more caps faster than any other house on this community. There have been billions of LNS logged to fight the Harmony, and in every case I've been to, the Harmony has won with minimal losses.
That's because of the system is literally laid out to be a guard system on steroids.
First let's consider that even in absence of the POB's interfering with combat, the system is an asteroid field - meaning offensive cap fleets moving into the system are going to get bottlenecked and crushed in so many ways. Multiple capitalships have to squeeze through the asteroid feild which in several cases minimizes casualties for the harmony players since they more than commonly fly cruisers and battlecruisers. Making it easy to slowly nibble at the liberty navy players and eventually kill them all. The concept of nova bombers (which would often be solution to battlecruisers) is made irrelevant since the asteroid field negates a good portion of the torpedoes fired at the capital ships. The asteroid field also easily allows fighters to traverse and take down any bombers.
Now you're probably thinking, "well just log the crap necessary to counter what we have". The issue is here that it takes time in every case for the liberty side to readjust its forces, since they have to fly all the way back to Texas and relog. Take this, and compare it to the harmony players that can simply dock at any base within the system and relog, or change on a moments notice in contrast.
Now, mix this all with the very well known fact that the liberty playerbase is also terrible, that's not your fault, but when you consider everything this system has going for it in contrast to practically any other system in the game, it's something that can be fixed at very least.
Using the environment for the most part is fine anyways, but now lets mix the small problem that is the system itself with the contents of the system.
Quote: I encourage staying away from the pobs but I won't complain if a ganked ship moves there to escape.
I hate to sound rude here, but words of encouragement do literally nothing when a player is confronted with dying in this game. Everyone, you and me included - will do whatever it takes to avoid getting killed in practically any situation. The issue here is that the base locations mixed the npc freeport's affiliation all contribute to making it way to easy to avoid getting killed. The defense setup in Bering has proved in a real fight that, even a numerically superior force (very large) can easily be disorganized and completely destroyed as a result of the bases defenses even in the absence of any coordination from the Harmony side so long as they stay near the bases.
Regardless of the situation, it's ridiculous to have a saftey net that protects the harmony and UN players well over what should be the "protection limit" in this game. Ganks happen to us all, we do use bases as cover, but they're npc bases often times. I can live with players hugging npc bases, I am not a fan of PoBs providing ridiculous amounts of cover that negates any chance of victory. Especially when the bases is set so that the people hugging it cannot go hostile to the base. You're fighting the Liberty playerbase, they do have a lot more numbers, they are not skilled however, and other factions are confronted with similar issues of constantly facing larger forces on a daily basis.
Yet, all of those factions manage without having something like this setup. What I find sort of ridiculous is that it's taken people complaining for you to consider making a change that could possibly fix a part of the situation. Why did you not consider this before? Letting something like this run with the endorsement of the official faction that is blatantly harmful to gameplay for anyone that isn't wearing a Harmony or Unioner IFF is in itself - very questionable.
Quote:If it would be preferred I could note down the coordinates of Bristol's platforms and move all of them into the pob or Freeport. So they can be fanned out should it actually be sieged.
Having the base's platforms moved would rule out the issue of captial ships being completely wiped out, but the cover in that area mixed with the dockable npc base not 2k from the bases just a "no blue safety net" for players wearing your IFF or a UN IFF. Let's also consider for a moment that even if you do in fact run with this, I can guarantee most fights within the system will quickly move from the Freeport to Marshall station. Which, just so happens to have the same issue, only now the base cannot be sieged, and there's even more cover for it.
I strongly advise you undo the 1 way friendly rephack for the bases if you want any sort of pvp related interaction to happen in the system. If you don't, than you're doing the best job ever at really "securing" the system - and I wouldn't consider that a good thing.
RE: Battlegroup Harmony - Information and Feedback - Sombs - 06-11-2018
I'd use your Tom Cruise meme on your response but I think you probably know yourself that your post is literally the complaint I mentioned earlier. Let friendlies do whatever they want. If you take their spots away, they will either move off-plane or not even log. If people don't want to get blued, they will find their ways and there is nothing you can do about it.
RE: Battlegroup Harmony - Information and Feedback - Skorak - 06-11-2018
I am losing the willingness to discuss this. If you really have an issue with people sitting at Marshall were you cannot harm them then I can't help you. The way there is not extremely small and it's considered the same for us as Navy sitting at Manhattan.
RE: Battlegroup Harmony - Information and Feedback - Antonio - 06-11-2018
(06-11-2018, 10:06 PM)Sombra Hookier Wrote: I'd use your Tom Cruise meme on your response but I think you probably know yourself that your post is literally the complaint I mentioned earlier. Let friendlies do whatever they want. If you take their spots away, they will either move off-plane or not even log. If people don't want to get blued, they will find their ways and there is nothing you can do about it.
No, you're not entitled to your own corner of sacred space in activity hubs because you're against hostile encounters in a space combat simulator. The problem is mentality of people like you who feel like everyone should oblige to their requests and not dare to "harass" them by bringing something that is potentially hostile. I log my Scylla in Bering often, and personally an activity hub that's a "safe zone" lacks that Freelancer feeling of encountering a hostile ship. It's nothing like Freelancer.
If you wish to not interact with players without ending up in potential PvP, don't go to activity hubs. Take your circlejerk and prearranged RP, go in a system nobody ever visits (thankfully there's plenty of those), heck even go off-plane if you want and no one'll say a word, but activity hubs should attract all kind of players, not just friendlies. That's the definition of an activity hub. It's sad to hear that you feel the need to desperately run away from interaction, especially someone who once said "what if I don't want to interact with players on my miner". Manhattan is a natural safe zone but isn't an activity hub, nor is it expected to be, exactly because unlawfuls are off-limits. Delta is an activity hub and not a safe zone and attracts all kind of players, and it works great. Bering Freeport certainly shouldn't be a safe zone as it's an activity hub, both inRP and ooRP.
The concept of becoming a blue is often too over-exaggerated. You don't lose a ship like in EVE, your character isn't dead if the ship dies. Respawn in 2 hours, someone might use it inRP to claim a bounty or brag about it for a while but so what, it doesn't interfere with your overall roleplay unless you make it so. In fact if people were more relaxed about it in general there'd be much less ganking and better fights overall, but I don't wanna go off-topic here.
RE: Battlegroup Harmony - Information and Feedback - DarkTails - 06-11-2018
For my own experience, whenever I log there's typically an overwhelming enemy superiority, even if I'm just logging my fighter. You explain to me how I'm supposed to create RP (and no, PvP is not RP when all you get is PvP) when you're consistently invaded and attacked and killed in the only system you can relatively call home. It's like a Navy ship logging on and undocking at Manhattan, and a bunch of Rogues, Outcasts and Hackers log against you, except in this type of scenario, you don't have limitless indies to call upon for aid and/or cannon fodder. What happens? You die. Over. And over. It gets old and eventually kills a persons interest to even appear in that region. I'd very much love to take fights into Texas or New York where there's open space, but when I log on and roughly outnumber me by 3 to 1, I'm just going to log off and not bother doing anything. That's now how you keep the server alive.
Harmony doesn't exist as a solely PvP faction. Yes, it is majority PvP, as it's a Separatist faction at war with the Liberty Navy. However, we should not be forced to leave our own ZoI to be able to do anything except get /1/2 and battle. That's not promoting activity, that's slowly annoying people to the point where they no longer log the region. Eventually we get fed up with it, and defense complexes like Bristol appear to provide a small haven against such.
RE: Battlegroup Harmony - Information and Feedback - Shiki - 07-02-2018
I am not sure if that's the truth, but there are some rumors reaching me about Harmony members and/or leader are being upset about some of my recent posts. If that is the case, then I'm sorry for some of my wording or humor being too harsh, I did not mean to insult leader or members.
Looking forward to ecounter you in game when all of my ships are back. I hope there won't be any bad blood between us.
RE: Battlegroup Harmony - Information and Feedback - Stefan - 07-25-2018
While being a complete bystander to your plans and actions, and having only interacted with a few of you in-game, I just wanted to drop that I've been having a blast accompanying your diplomatic developments and write ups via forum whilst trying to keep it as clean, iRP as possible. Kudos I suppose.
RE: Battlegroup Harmony - Information and Feedback - Skorak - 07-25-2018
Thanks we're doing our best. Now it's just to hope that it's fun ingame.