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+--- Thread: ADMIN NOTICE : OFFICIAL FACTION RIGHTS (/showthread.php?tid=21611)
ADMIN NOTICE : OFFICIAL FACTION RIGHTS - n00bl3t - 06-10-2009
' Wrote:Don't take this the wrong way guys, but people like nooblet and tink, with the other "antifaction" types would be watching things like a hawk just waiting for a chance to prove that faction leaders are corrupt brown nosing dictators. Not a single faction leader here would get away with any corrupt decisions as to who gets a cap ship. And that's why I love the "antifaction" people, I don't agree with much of what they say - but they have good points and they help keep us honest. I'm saying this in a funny way, at least I'm trying to, but it's true.
Ventana, I think that is unfair. (Considering I did run HX on Teks and had to put up with people coming into Beta and stuff like that.)
Not to mention, on a more public note, I am in official and unofficial factions. (People tend to forget this.)
ADMIN NOTICE : OFFICIAL FACTION RIGHTS - worldstrider - 06-10-2009
' Wrote:Don't take this the wrong way guys, but people like nooblet and tink, with the other "antifaction" types would be watching things like a hawk just waiting for a chance to prove that faction leaders are corrupt brown nosing dictators. Not a single faction leader here would get away with any corrupt decisions as to who gets a cap ship. And that's why I love the "antifaction" people, I don't agree with much of what they say - but they have good points and they help keep us honest. I'm saying this in a funny way, at least I'm trying to, but it's true.
I trust probably 80% of the people here enough not to worry about them--even when they vent sometimes.
It's the other 20%--15% of whom are fine most of the time on their own but who get easily stirred up and rally behind that last 5% who quite simply feel they own the place. There is room for everyone here--not only one. We should ALL strive to keep it that way.
Antifaction...err...didn't I start a faction?
ADMIN NOTICE : OFFICIAL FACTION RIGHTS - Eternal - 06-10-2009
' Wrote:Oh yes, I should stay out of an argument which directly affects me and which has been lobbied against by me at every turn. Put simply, I do not care about you. Either way. You are just another player. Indifference.
They are not insults if they are true. Eh.
Actually, it was "what has happened" but thus besides the point.
If, as a faction leader you were against these changes is when I would feel a smidgen of surprise. Honestly, just post a picture of a cat with a tin foil hat. If you need power over independents to give your faction meaning, your faction is rather pathetic.
On the same note, do not think criticising these changes makes you a lesser forum member.
As previously said, they have.
The point is, a new member does not enjoy the benefits of this.
(Of course, counter-acted by the statement of how they have to earn trust, but there is no rubric for gaining trust and trust is subjective and prone to bias.)
There are two factions in which I play a role of a leader. The first is the Volksfront , in which there are two more leaders , both of them are as experienced as I am and will , I'm sure , slap me if I do something idiotic. The Volksfront does not have indies which need controlling , we are working on that ( the indies part ) , as such your reply to my post and the faction I am a part of is meaningless. I believe that you have misunderstood what I meant in my post , I agree that I may not have made my point as clear as I should. Not the less , here is what I meant. If a faction has shown proper role play , has earned the trust of the community and has finally been given official faction status , something which takes a LONG time sometimes , as I have discovered for myself , then that faction surely deserves to have some authority over , say , a player who has just created his character and has no clue what he should do and what is expected of him to be doing. Official factions are for that , if you think that is pathetic , then by all means that is your opinion , but I think that that is just a small token of trust towards a player/s , who have sacrificed a lot of their time in hopes to improve server RP and add to the flavour of Discovery. Independats reap from the labour of official factions and all they ask in return is for the indies to follow server RP and the established faction RP.
The second faction in which I have a leadership position is the Order. Just so people don't get the wrong idea , my Order character is an "indie" , like some people will put it , but in truth there is nothing "indie" to it. Although I don't have the power which Swiss has , people still choose to follow my in game RP and respect my position and rank , for that I thank them. No one makes them follow my RP or my orders , it just seems that they trust me enough with that task. Again , if that is pathetic - your personal opinion.
ADMIN NOTICE : OFFICIAL FACTION RIGHTS - Jinx - 06-10-2009
@Eternal:
fairness and balance....
how would you feel if:
- an unknown non-factionized player ( that others say is really really responisible and shows great RP ) decides over YOUR FACTION?
- he has payed ... lets say.... 2.000.000.000 credits to apply for the job and a team of judges found him appropriate
- he was given the 2 billion back + a cap 8 armour
- if he says "no, your faction does not deserve anything larger than a cruiser" it will be YOU that has to prove that you DO deserve it.
that is how people can feel like. - turn it around - look at a problem from every side if possible.
so .... would you be FOR such a change if an "independent" that was approved by the admin team made decisions for your faction?
and not only now or in the next very enthusiastic 3 months - but also in 6 months and 1 year. you must be for the such a model concept, cause that is the same thing turned around. - the no name independent doesn t know how much your great RP plays into the decision, how much popularity plays into it.
maybe he is responsible and fair 95% of the time - unfair and irresponsible only 5% of the time ( is that a good ratio? ) .... sadly, your faction decides on the 5% cause he showed the 95% in other encounters.
edit:
the model that was suggested needs players ( and that includes people ranging from 13 years or younger i guess - up to maturity ) to make decisions. - not everyone has learned social competence. ( thats a skill one must LEARN ) - not everyone has the ability to look at a problem from multiple points of views. ( no offence - but kids in puberty often get into trouble with their parents cause they fail to see any pov but their own - which isn t their fault, its their way to get distance from their parents - a natural process )
we have them all. - yes, i can live with being judged at by a mature, person that is skilled in rethorics and social competence. - but will i also accept to be judged at by a 13 years old, who hasn t got the education to make objective decisions?
there is a reason why in most countries kids and teens are not allowed to elect in political matters. they are influenced too much and cannot yet make objective decisions ( come to that - many adults fail at the very same. - but in some age, kids often cannot help it )
ADMIN NOTICE : OFFICIAL FACTION RIGHTS - worldstrider - 06-10-2009
Take it a step further...
"You can't post that rp on the forum because it involves our faction/system and affects our role play. Since we are "official" and you aren't, we will role play it our way or else have the admin strip your ship and cash if you play otherwise...capish?"
ADMIN NOTICE : OFFICIAL FACTION RIGHTS - n00bl3t - 06-10-2009
' Wrote:There are two factions in which I play a role of a leader. The first is the Volksfront , in which there are two more leaders , both of them are as experienced as I am and will , I'm sure , slap me if I do something idiotic. The Volksfront does not have indies which need controlling , we are working on that ( the indies part ) , as such your reply to my post and the faction I am a part of is meaningless. I believe that you have misunderstood what I meant in my post , I agree that I may not have made my point as clear as I should. Not the less , here is what I meant. If a faction has shown proper role play , has earned the trust of the community and has finally been given official faction status , something which takes a LONG time sometimes , as I have discovered for myself , then that faction surely deserves to have some authority over , say , a player who has just created his character and has no clue what he should do and what is expected of him to be doing. Official factions are for that , if you think that is pathetic , then by all means that is your opinion , but I think that that is just a small token of trust towards a player/s , who have sacrificed a lot of their time in hopes to improve server RP and add to the flavour of Discovery. Independats reap from the labour of official factions and all they ask in return is for the indies to follow server RP and the established faction RP.
The second faction in which I have a leadership position is the Order. Just so people don't get the wrong idea , my Order character is an "indie" , like some people will put it , but in truth there is nothing "indie" to it. Although I don't have the power which Swiss has , people still choose to follow my in game RP and respect my position and rank , for that I thank them. No one makes them follow my RP or my orders , it just seems that they trust me enough with that task. Again , if that is pathetic - your personal opinion.
There is a Volksfront? Also, my reply was generic and it still stands.
Does that mean an independent character which has existed without a sanction before a faction was created does not have to follow a faction's orders? You are operating on a first come, first served basis which constricts and already highly restricted RP environment. Eh.
Also, your small token of trust, can easily ruin another person's game without justification, so I hardly consider it small.
My independents have not reaped much from factions and I follow the server rules. That is all I should have to do. No less, no more.
Pathetic is justifying the meaning of a faction with independent control. Not what you are twisting my words to be.
ADMIN NOTICE : OFFICIAL FACTION RIGHTS - Eternal - 06-10-2009
' Wrote:@Eternal:
fairness and balance....
how would you feel if:
- an unknown non-factionized player ( that others say is really really responisible and shows great RP ) decides over YOUR FACTION?
- he has payed ... lets say.... 2.000.000.000 credits to apply for the job and a team of judges found him appropriate
- he was given the 2 billion back + a cap 8 armour
- if he says "no, your faction does not deserve anything larger than a cruiser" it will be YOU that has to prove that you DO deserve it.
that is how people can feel like. - turn it around - look at a problem from every side if possible.
so .... would you be FOR such a change if an "independent" that was approved by the admin team made decisions for your faction?
and not only now or in the next very enthusiastic 3 months - but also in 6 months and 1 year. you must be for the such a model concept, cause that is the same thing turned around. - the no name independent doesn t know how much your great RP plays into the decision, how much popularity plays into it.
maybe he is responsible and fair 95% of the time - unfair and irresponsible only 5% of the time ( is that a good ratio? ) .... sadly, your faction is the 5%.
Jinx : How is that possible ? I know of no such thing as to what you wrote. I'm positive that it is NOT possible also. People cannot "buy" trust , even more from admins which , as we all know , gain nothing from credits.
However , if I choose to play along and accept that that has happened , then I think that I can answer your question.
First of all , let's say that the Volksfront want to be given rights to use a Cruiser , for a flagship , for instance. Then that player does not agree with my decision and the decisions of both Rashnok and Chris , the two other leaders.
First , I would like to hear why he does not want to agree with us. If his points are valid , I will listen to them , and then I will talk to my factions members. If they all do not agree with him and support our choice , then I will try to reason with him. Again , I really doubt that his point will actually be meaningful , because we are talking about our faction here , a faction which we have studied a lot and have created an entirely new lore about , like many other faction leaders , I dare say , no one knows a faction , better then it's leaders. If he still doesn't agree with us , then we always have the choice of asking an admin to decide. This is something that people can still do , if they feel a faction does not treat them fair , they can plead to an admin and see what he/she thinks about that. No one can deny anything without the proper reason.
I'm sorry If I didn't understand your question right , Jinx.
ADMIN NOTICE : OFFICIAL FACTION RIGHTS - Jinx - 06-10-2009
the question is
"is it fair if a council of non-factionized players had the described powers over your faction?"
no, no need to argue how that is possible or not... just a simple question.
ADMIN NOTICE : OFFICIAL FACTION RIGHTS - Eternal - 06-10-2009
' Wrote:There is a Volksfront? Also, my reply was generic and it still stands.
Does that mean an independent character which has existed without a sanction before a faction was created does not have to follow a faction's orders? You are operating on a first come, first served basis which constricts and already highly restricted RP environment. Eh.
Also, your small token of trust, can easily ruin another person's game without justification, so I hardly consider it small.
My independents have not reaped much from factions and I follow the server rules. That is all I should have to do. No less, no more.
Pathetic is justifying the meaning of a faction with independent control. Not what you are twisting my words to be.
To answer that , I will start with this - Official faction which are meant to become the player base of an already existing NPC faction , follow 90% of the accepted role play for that faction. They simply construct a story line to fill in the gaps which are left from SP and create official standings with other factions. Every player must try to do that , even on a personal level. What I mean to say is , that if I had a BAF Dunkirk , before BAF was formed , I really wouldn't be doing something different from what the BAF| are trying to do in RP and in daily activities. If I'm doing something different , then I'm probably doing it wrong. However , exceptions do exist , I believe , and for that the player faction very often listens to what they have to say. A very shining example is the leadership of the Gaian faction , under the command of Marburg. Have you noticed the "Recognized independants" section there ? Or the Order ? No one wants to ruin the fun for someone else , that's not a goal at all for faction leaders.
I believe you have/had an Outcasts character. If that is true , then you have , without a doubt "reaped" from the hard work , labour and imagination of no other then Eppy. The 101st own Omicron-85 and I dare say , it's one of the most beautiful and interesting systems in Discovery. If you have been there and enjoyed the view , the you should wonder who to thank for that experience.
ADMIN NOTICE : OFFICIAL FACTION RIGHTS - Eternal - 06-10-2009
' Wrote:the question is
"is it fair if a council of non-factionized players had the described powers over your faction?"
no, no need to argue how that is possible or not... just a simple question.
Ahha , now I understand.
To that question , I will have to answer with "no". My personal opinion is such. Players which have not tried to create a faction of their own and fight for it's rights and so forth , should not have authority over those who have. Again , my personal opinion and it is a subject to change.