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+--- Thread: Techmix-nerf and factions which are unique in RELYING on techmixing (/showthread.php?tid=70170)
Techmix-nerf and factions which are unique in RELYING on techmixing - McNeo - 12-17-2011
' Wrote:why dont u stop approving the tech then?
I assume you're talking about Liberty stuff:
Because we don't have to.
We still don't have to with this system in place.
The people who buy are the ones who want it.
But since I imagine there will be a lot fewer who want it, there's much fewer requests to be granted.
Plus, why would we deny financing towards our bounty board? That's where it all goes.
Techmix-nerf and factions which are unique in RELYING on techmixing - Not Espi - 12-17-2011
' Wrote:Sorry bro, but just because you try thinking something up doesn't mean it'll automatically be good or worth anything other than complaining. (seriously your idea was pretty bad)
Why so? Is it worse than the current system? No. Is it damaging factions that put YEARS (yeah, you heard me) of work into their current state? No. Is it preventing other groups from overpowering their pvp capacity to the limit? It does. I thought that's what we are talking about here.
Topic title:
'Techmix-nerf and factions which are unique in RELYING on techmixing'
I'm assuming HL, AGS, ]bd[ (in this case Chimmies), SCRA, Wilde... And some generic ID factions.
What are you people talking about?
Techmix-nerf and factions which are unique in RELYING on techmixing - Maelstrom - 12-17-2011
The double standards in some of these replies are laughable...
Quote:We'll also reduce OP ship and gear combinations and we'll have people use the stuff that matches their ID and otherwise more often due to the nerfing, while on the other hand those who really badly want special X or Y or Z will still be able to get it. That too is a good thing in my book.
followed by..
Quote:The HF majorly uses its shared capital ships for massive raids. Those include:
The Rogue / Molly Gunboats Charybdis and Scylla, the Liberty Gunboat Undaunted, the Liberty Cruisers Damocles and Excalibur, the LABC Last Sunrise, the Storta Abaddon, to a lesser extent the Rogue / Molly Destroyer Iblis, the Osiris Battleship Incursus, the Ranseur Ven'Gyr, and finally the Spyglass Libertine.
Aside from the last one, all of that would get nerfed automatically. As HF HC, I have to say: This sucks
So it's ok that others take a nerf to roleplay out nonfaction tech but not for your faction? Wow, what blatant hypocrisy. The fact that you have been doing it for years isn't a defense, it's an indictment. "But Judge, I've been embezzling for so many years, shouldn't it be a part of my salary now?" It's about time the official factions got the chop. You cannot sit there and tell indipendant and freelance players, "No, you can't have our special and revered tech because it's our pride our identity and more special than you." and then complain when your favorite faction is told they can't min max thier pvp by using other factions super special identity stuff. It doesn't matter what window dressing you throw on it afterwords when you flat out admit that you design all your pvp around non-faction tech.
Techmix-nerf and factions which are unique in RELYING on techmixing - Hades - 12-17-2011
' Wrote:Why so? Is it worse than the current system? No. Is it damaging factions that put YEARS (yeah, you heard me) of work into their current state? No. Is it preventing other groups from overpowering their pvp capacity to the limit? It does. I thought that's what we are talking about here.Your idea was bad because it unnecessarily hurts indies to benefit factions, something which does not have to be done in order to help the factions.
Techmix-nerf and factions which are unique in RELYING on techmixing - darkxy - 12-17-2011
' Wrote:Your idea was bad because it unnecessarily hurts indies to benefit factions, something which does not have to be done in order to help the factions.
= VR, HF, AGS etc
Techmix-nerf and factions which are unique in RELYING on techmixing - casero - 12-17-2011
I'm surprised that HF is trying to be different from everyone else when it comes exclusively to PvP, but no when it comes to RP as a whole, I meant, with the techmix nerf there can be a whole fleet of Lane Hacker ID'd (underpowered) Navy ships claiming they were part of the Liberty Navy and they've defected, but your concern is not that anyone can be like HF now, but that you will have it a bit harder on fights.
On a rough view, the argument is: "Our PvP works fine as it is, please leave it as that".
Why should be the HF an exception, when in the history of Disco no one has been the exception when it comes to general balance?
Techmix-nerf and factions which are unique in RELYING on techmixing - Echo 7-7 - 12-17-2011
' Wrote:The double standards in some of these replies are laughable...
followed by..
So it's ok that others take a nerf to roleplay out nonfaction tech but not for your faction? Wow, what blatant hypocrisy.
I think you're misunderstanding the point here. We're arguing against the system, and explaining why we think it's bad using our own faction as a prime example. I'm sure that all the other members of HF command would agree that any other faction or individual, who put the necessary effort into obtaining a particular piece of technology, should be able to retain it and be able to use it effectively.
Quote:The fact that you have been doing it for years isn't a defense, it's an indictment. ....... It doesn't matter what window dressing you throw on it afterwords when you flat out admit that you design all your pvp around non-faction tech.
Well, what the hell else were we supposed to do all these years before our own tech even existed? We made these tech deals, alliances, pacts and so on to acquire things to fill gaps in our arsenal, not because we wanted something better than what we already had. How can we be accused of building our faction around non-faction tech when our faction tech didn't exist earlier, and in some cases, still does not exist?
Edit: @casero; This issue would not occur if we had our own full shipline. We're not asking for something unbalanced, we're asking for something that will work. If the Devs want puretech to be the combat-effective option for factions, then let us have our own ships.
Techmix-nerf and factions which are unique in RELYING on techmixing - dodike - 12-17-2011
All that bickering about roleplay justification or the lack of thereof. The roleplay that I observed is in many cases driven by desire to get equipment for PvP advantage and produces absurd alliances and treaties.
This change is our chance to ridicule the mod a little bit less.
Techmix-nerf and factions which are unique in RELYING on techmixing - casero - 12-17-2011
' Wrote:Edit: @casero; This issue would not occur if we had our own full shipline. We're not asking for something unbalanced, we're asking for something that will work. If the Devs want puretech to be the combat-effective option for factions, then let us have our own ships.
I guess you meant efficient, not effective. A LM can be effective for taking down bombers, but it's not very efficient. Mixing is less efficient.
But you are asking to be able to keep your hacker, rogues, outcast, navy ships fighting as they are right now, because they are part of your history. I hope we agree that HF has a big advantage when they are able to use these:
The Rogue / Molly Gunboats Charybdis and Scylla, the Liberty Gunboat Undaunted, the Liberty Cruisers Damocles and Excalibur, the LABC Last Sunrise, the Storta Abaddon, to a lesser extent the Rogue / Molly Destroyer Iblis, the Osiris Battleship Incursus, the Ranseur Ven'Gyr, and finally the Spyglass Libertine.
Now, they are saying that the combination of those ships wont' be as effecient as it is now, they haven't said how much the difference will be, you don't know how different it will be in combat, and yet you are already asking to keep things like they are, you want advantage on PvP, because you think you are special.
Even with your own technology, all those ships won't work as they work now. So, your own technology wouldn't change anything with the techmix nerf. Unless of course, your own technology matchs navy, rogue, outcast, hacker, order/corsair. Apparently you don't have a main branch when it's related to technology, if someone asked me, I would say you are closer to Navy.
It's only my opinion that you should just addapt to the changes, find new efficent way to fight with the new rules, like Disco has always done.
Techmix-nerf and factions which are unique in RELYING on techmixing - Jack_Henderson - 12-17-2011
I am looking forward to the new system. It gives the freedom to have rp-equipment (you really want it? Get it and live with the consequences) , but it also discourages pvp-optimising by techmixing.
I still believe that most of the "great roleplay" that was done to aquire foreign tech serves only the purpose of creating stronger pvp combinations. Finding the best pvp combination and somehow constructing an irp explanation why you have it should not be the aim of roleplay interactions.
So... assuming that these tech-mixed combinations are still useable (only a reasonable nerf that keeps any of these mix-max combinations from being op) , I completely agree with the changes.