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+--- Thread: Zoners (/showthread.php?tid=98709)
RE: Zoners - Thyrzul - 05-26-2013
(05-24-2013, 04:59 PM)Tel-Aviv Wrote: Seperate yeah, but united ..
Zoners will never be united. If they are united, they will not be Zoners anymore.
(05-24-2013, 09:23 PM)MartoGuy Wrote: If in-game activity, has nothing to do with faction activity/strength then why the hell are we playing RP games. If the role you take up has certain goals, would you not strive to achieve them? Almost all anti-zoner opinions are connected to the lore of the faction, at least as I see it. Sorry to intrude with my opinion, I am not an avid forum poster, but shouldn't we try to leave our own marks in this story we call Freelancer Discovery? Should we just walk the treadmill each day?
The in-game activity of each faction is the representation of their popularity, not their inRP might. If in-game activity would determine inRP strenght, then Gallia would not be able to steamroll Bretonia, and Rheinland would have lost the war long ago. To leave your own marks in the story, as you said, I would advise you to roleplay, mostly on the forums, because that is the one more documented.
(05-24-2013, 09:23 PM)MartoGuy Wrote: If I make a Liberty Police char. am I only allowed to do as my officer told me? If I go out of my way to hunt LR, or try and help the Order because in-game and in-RP I have a more personal reason to do so, would that be a rule violation? Would that make people say "Hey stop that, the lore says you shouldn't do that!" ? In my opinion each faction, each House, each Player, should and even must try and change the world.
Roleplay bounds are to ensure characters stay what they are. If you make a char with LPI ID, then that will be a Liberty Police char, and will stay as such and will have to act as such as long you use that ID on it. The job of a police officer is to keep peace and order within the house. If your char wants to help The Order, he is free to do so in civil, using Freelancer ID or quitting his job and finding any other ID suitable for cooperation with The Order. Allying with and Order ID'd character as a LPI ID'd character, that may get you a rule violation, yes. But if your character derives from the initial roleplay you started in, you can freely choose a new ID to continue without breaking any rules.
If the lore of the LPI will include cooperation with The Order, you will be able to ally an Order with your LPI, but currently, considering that The Order is regarded as terrorists by all of the house authorities, this is not the case and doing so will get you a 6.9 most probably.
If the lore of the LPI will include cooperation with The Order, you will be able to ally an Order with your LPI, but currently, considering that The Order is regarded as terrorists by all of the house authorities, this is not the case and doing so will get you a 6.9 most probably.
(05-24-2013, 09:23 PM)MartoGuy Wrote: This faction says it wants to be more agressive in nature, let them play more aggresive in nature, they are still bounded by their ID. The ID being to restrict the Zoners to their current lore, but as we see the current lore of Zoners is changing. Multi-house spanning corporations. House wide religion. Comrades against the alien threat. All of these are Zoner factions. All of these were groups of players, who with time, effort and patience left their own mark on the story, but still followed their prime Ideology. Freedom and neutrality. They protected it, freedom by profit, freedom by fate, and now as I see it at least freedom by fire. As for the neutrality, you cant be all good, even the OSI had a rub in with Rheinland, but as long as they are trying to stick to the core of their Zoner beliefs then it is all good.
If your idea of freedom by fire would work, Zoners wouldn't be where they still are now. As Agmen already said, there were cocky Zoners earlier and they are gone already, without much success at changing the lore of Zoners. Every other Zoner faction, which is still up and running survived this long because they mostly weren't part of any armed conflicts, or tried to resolve those via diplomatic talks and such. What OZ lacked back then was their diplomatic skills, and what Agmen also referenced, they openly admitted their ties with The Order and got the wrath of the Core on themselves. They did not survive long. What we have now in the presence of ZA is even more radical and even more far from what the Zoners were and I believe are.
(05-24-2013, 09:23 PM)MartoGuy Wrote: One other main concern is that the ships they are flying aren't made for war. Although that may be true, lots of inventions were not made for war, and yet have ravaged mankind. Maybe the ship is made for colonization, but when push comes to shove and the edge to the bone, you have no choice. Leave them colonists on the planet, fly it with minimal staff, if you have to.
One solution not to have a conflict is to try to resolve the current one. Or end it in an other way. But I bet the most successful way would be to not start a conflict in the first place. And that is what Zoners were excelling at, and due to this they weren't at all in the need of a capital fleet. And that is what the ZA failed hard at.
(05-24-2013, 09:23 PM)MartoGuy Wrote: Another concern is that they must be a small divided cells, as someone mentioned a zoner wouldn't give a damn, about another one on another station. But, why? Surely if some is killing, harassing or even threatening someone who hold the same ideals and beliefs as you, you might be concerned? Because he is not in your system doesn't mean this will be an isolated case? Were those guys in the corner collecting money for a defense militia? Why not spare a few credits?
Zoner is a term unifying a wide range of people. What do they have in common? They live at the edge of space, outside the Houses. Does that entitle them to work together? Barely. A FP10 Zoner could barely give a damn about what happens in the Omicrons, the Commonwealth aims to be rich anyways, FP1's Zoners are way more concerned about the Corsairs and the Hessians around them, FP2 Zoners enjoy the fireworks happening between the grey tubes and the green bricks, every of them have anothers around themselves, every of these clusters are separated and surrounded. Two or three being close to each other may work together, hell we even have a Confederacy. But neither that has a centralized command.
Besides, as I've experienced so far, other Zoners indeed do care about what happens in the Omicrons, and it seems not all of them like what these new cap-wielding buddies are doing.
Besides, as I've experienced so far, other Zoners indeed do care about what happens in the Omicrons, and it seems not all of them like what these new cap-wielding buddies are doing.
(05-24-2013, 09:23 PM)MartoGuy Wrote: There are 12 year old admirals, space animals and all sorts strange things in this story we all build, and this is sometimes what makes it so interesting. But when some people want to change a faction, it is considered a no-no. Say that they couldn't unite zoners, they probably can't, say that their ships must suck or be restricted, they probably aren't so op, say that they don't deserve a ship-line, compared to some factions they do deserve it. But let them play, and let them try and let them change, if they can, the world. And if you don't like it, if you think that corsairs should squash them (example) , or they should be punished by some other faction. Go in-game, log in with a corsair char or something and just play it out.
Two wrongs don't make a right, and just because some of us voice our opinions about what's wrong with some of the Zoner players around in a thread actually being about Zoners, that doesn't mean we all like the rest of those aberrations. I personally neither like twelve year olds commanding caps, nor the furries, and in an other thread I already voiced my opinion about several non-House cap wielding factions whether they should have those caps or not.
As previous examples proven, various Zoner factions can escape their bounds, OSI for example became an edge worlds megacorp, TAZ is a bunch of religious folks providing a neutral piece of space for their surroundings, both of them proving their usefulness to their neighbors and/or business partners.
If the ZA can change the world, good luck for them, but I bet they will need way more for that than capspam, metagaming and overall hostility towards anybody around them. And I also bet may will play out how the surrounding factions keep Zoners at bay if needed.
As previous examples proven, various Zoner factions can escape their bounds, OSI for example became an edge worlds megacorp, TAZ is a bunch of religious folks providing a neutral piece of space for their surroundings, both of them proving their usefulness to their neighbors and/or business partners.
If the ZA can change the world, good luck for them, but I bet they will need way more for that than capspam, metagaming and overall hostility towards anybody around them. And I also bet may will play out how the surrounding factions keep Zoners at bay if needed.
RE: Zoners - Curios - 05-27-2013
I swear, I think I'll be making a thread about the player's affecting things asking admins to clear out this stuff since there is too many different POVs on this and everyone claiming he's right.
RE: Zoners - Sad - 05-27-2013
There is a matter people usually tend to ignore: the community balances itself.
The large-scale events that are usually referred as that time of year again represent the period when Zoner players more or less tended to play united Zoners, the Zoner Alliance and stuff. It was an unbalanced entity, utilizing everything Zoners can offer: capital ships, neutrality, alliances. In a very natural way it faced the opposition from the other players or faction - let it be Core, Corsairs or BAF.
Same way the community balanced AI recently, smashing them for their approach to playing that kind of characters. Conflicts between the military factions have the same framework, just a different outburst.
That's also the reason current Zoner bashing session is that boring: the ZA aren't unbalancing things much or at least do it in such an obvious and intolerable way. It's boring.
Therefore, rest assured, as long as the community bashes everything above average in some paranoid stance and refers to lore solely, as long as fluctuations are considered unnecessary, we won't get Zoner roleplay that is as cool as in the good old times, that is involving most of the community like it used to.
Yet if Zoners allow themselves some healthy powergaming and some old good Zoner attitude instead of exceptional cautioness, as well as if they rather ignore the rest of the community with their one-sided biased opinions, everything will be alright.
RE: Zoners - AeternusDoleo - 05-27-2013
... I'm very tempted to make all Zoner bases with the exclusion of those in Baffin and O-74 Freelancer IFFd ones, along with the patrols. Just to drive a point home. The Nommicron Zoners can be that united semistate and get pounded on by the Sairs at will. Other Freeports will actually be Freeports. Under noone's control, since the Freelancer IFF is unhandled.
RE: Zoners - Curios - 05-27-2013
(05-27-2013, 08:24 AM)AeternusDoleo Wrote: ... I'm very tempted to make all Zoner bases with the exclusion of those in Baffin and O-74 Freelancer IFFd ones, along with the patrols. Just to drive a point home. The Nommicron Zoners can be that united semistate and get pounded on by the Sairs at will. Other Freeports will actually be Freeports. Under noone's control, since the Freelancer IFF is unhandled.
That would be great. I, myself, proposed simply different IFFs for each freeport. But well, Freelancer IFF is cool as well and less frustrating to do. The Zoner NPC presence really must be reduced so people stop taking Zoners as a most powerful faction around.
RE: Zoners - Occam Razor - 05-27-2013
(05-27-2013, 08:24 AM)Sad Wrote: Same way the community balanced AI recently, smashing them for their approach to playing that kind of characters. Conflicts between the military factions have the same framework, just a different outburst.
Who was smashed? Did I miss anything?
RE: Zoners - SMGSterlin - 05-27-2013
(05-27-2013, 08:24 AM)AeternusDoleo Wrote: ... I'm very tempted to make all Zoner bases with the exclusion of those in Baffin and O-74 Freelancer IFFd ones, along with the patrols. Just to drive a point home. The Nommicron Zoners can be that united semistate and get pounded on by the Sairs at will. Other Freeports will actually be Freeports. Under noone's control, since the Freelancer IFF is unhandled.Good idea if you ask me.
RE: Zoners - Sad - 05-27-2013
(05-27-2013, 09:01 AM)Occam Razor Wrote: Who was smashed? Did I miss anything?Ask Kiith, had that discussion with him while ago.
RE: Zoners - Knjaz - 05-27-2013
(05-27-2013, 08:24 AM)AeternusDoleo Wrote: ... I'm very tempted to make all Zoner bases with the exclusion of those in Baffin and O-74 Freelancer IFFd ones, along with the patrols. Just to drive a point home. The Nommicron Zoners can be that united semistate and get pounded on by the Sairs at will. Other Freeports will actually be Freeports. Under noone's control, since the Freelancer IFF is unhandled.
Sounds like a solution, imho.
Only drawback would be that there would be no way of making Freelancer IFF'ed pirates hostile to yourself, without screwing up reputation with the Freeports, but that's it.
edit: although, rises some questions with Freeport administrations and their duties, if those still exist.
RE: Zoners - Curios - 05-27-2013
Freeport admins are not existent since all of them are having own POB freeport now, so I guess this means nothing. This is a real solution. Turn everything into Freelancer 8| Even Gran Canaria and surrounding bases. Also planets in Kappa.