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+--- Thread: The end of zonerzonerzoner - Rewrite the Zoner ID (/showthread.php?tid=116008)
RE: The end of zonerzonerzoner - Rewrite the Zoner ID - .Gypsy. - 05-31-2014
(05-31-2014, 12:54 PM)Lythrilux Wrote: Should we add a line to each house military saying:
-Can treat all foreign capitals as combat targets?
This is the best solution to the problem, limiting any ship from going anywhere is always (IMO) a bad idea, people complain that there is no interaction, and then we make rules limiting that very interaction even more. (Like the no OC caps in liberty)
I think any ship should be able to go anywhere.. always, BUT there should be inRP consequences, not OORP ones. I know that's not how it is, but its how it should be IMO.
-Can treat all foreign capitals as combat targets
That is perfect. I don't even think it needs to be on ID's, it should simply be a site law.
No rule that limits interaction should EVER be made, but that's just my opinion.
RE: The end of zonerzonerzoner - Rewrite the Zoner ID - SnakThree - 05-31-2014
Lawfuls already can shoot down Foreign Capital Ships as it is against the laws to be there. Additional line will change nothing.
RE: The end of zonerzonerzoner - Rewrite the Zoner ID - Lythrilux - 05-31-2014
(05-31-2014, 03:59 PM).Gypsy. Wrote:(05-31-2014, 12:54 PM)Lythrilux Wrote: Should we add a line to each house military saying:
-Can treat all foreign capitals as combat targets?
This is the best solution to the problem, limiting any ship from going anywhere is always (IMO) a bad idea, people complain that there is no interaction, and then we make rules limiting that very interaction even more. (Like the no OC caps in liberty)
I think any ship should be able to go anywhere.. always, BUT there should be inRP consequences, not OORP ones. I know that's not how it is, but its how it should be IMO.
-Can treat all foreign capitals as combat targets
That is perfect. I don't even think it needs to be on ID's, it should simply be a site law.
No rule that limits interaction should EVER be made, but that's just my opinion.
The problem is that from this Zoners are guaranteed to be outlawed from the houses. They hide criminals on their bases, now they happily fly in their warships into house space.
Zoners have to make a choice:
A. Either limit where Zoner capitals go, or have their capitals turned into something else that isn't a capital ship, or another suggestion along those lines.
Or
B. Be allowed to fly their caps in house space, however the penultimate punishment of this would be to ban Zoners from the houses. Whether this includes the official factions or not would be up to the governments themselves.
RE: The end of zonerzonerzoner - Rewrite the Zoner ID - .Gypsy. - 05-31-2014
(05-31-2014, 04:04 PM)Lythrilux Wrote: B. Be allowed to fly their caps in house space, however the penultimate punishment of this would be to ban Zoners from the houses. Whether this includes the official factions or not would be up to the governments themselves.
This
RE: The end of zonerzonerzoner - Rewrite the Zoner ID - titanbot - 05-31-2014
(05-31-2014, 11:53 AM)Lythrilux Wrote: -snip-
Official factions are the only way these indies can be kept in line. However, with the current amount of power official factions have, they have no direct power over indies. Therefore, the only real way they can gain control is by absorbing these indies into the official faction itself.
And do you know what's going to happen if Zoners keep presenting themselves as combat targets in house space? They're going to get banned from the houses.
-snip-
Power. In a game, you seek power over other individuals?
What did you do exactly in order to feel entitled to have something to say about other people's decisions? This is exactly the reason for which I dismissed your idea. What you actually seek is personal power for yourself or for your friends, and that's something I would rather not see it happen.
I think this thread has consumed it's potential.
Regards,
titanbot
RE: The end of zonerzonerzoner - Rewrite the Zoner ID - Sath - 05-31-2014
Zoner caps are doing good in Omicrons. Why would they want to enter house space at first place? Dont say sightseeing and present yourself an idiot here. Or passing through house space in order to reach a destination, I dont think the Omicrons travel through house space. Or there is this simple device called JD.
As far as I have seen., the zoner caps provide nothing in terms of marginally acceptable RP inside house space. There are many who have witnessed such. And please provide something in terms of server gameplay, RP to support your cause of Zoner caps in house space thing is concerned. Dont try to cover the obvious by hiding behind worldly values of freedom for everyone, no restrictions, blah blah...since if suddenly zoners rise from their ashes to point out that there should be freedom for their role, why not provide such kind of freedom to every house/faction?
Those other faction players dont make as big a drama as you guys do(I myself play a Zoner many times and I dont think restricting the caps to Omicrons will be a big hit on the Zoner RP, until the admins get pissed of to eradicate the whole zoner thingy). And remember, empty vessels make much noise.
Present some indy RP with Nephs in house space to support your cause, since you guys seem to be speaking of so many things that are just makesee. I dont believe that there is RP with Zoner caps in house space at all, since I just see Zoner caps coming to NY instead of going to Connecticut for free pews and nothing else. And until you present a valid reason for your argument, stop posting bullfeces all over the place.
RE: The end of zonerzonerzoner - Rewrite the Zoner ID - Lythrilux - 05-31-2014
Could we have some dev/admin input on this idea please?
RE: The end of zonerzonerzoner - Rewrite the Zoner ID - Lonely_Ghost - 05-31-2014
The only reason I see, why some idividuals defending zoner's caps right to fly in house space is NPC caps farming.
I bet 9 of 10, that even ZA was actualy a Zoner Aliance, not Core, not Order Aliance, because they have pretty strong BSs in terms of PVE. Nephil is great tool to pew NPC cap, no even need to learn TS. That the reason why Nephils are so popular.
About Zoner's caps in house space. Sure, it's not a problem to rape a lolwut on a Nephy, who can't even hurt you. Yeah, sometimes, you are even happy for such cheap RP and blue. Key word is sometimes. If it would be rare thing, noone would be even thinging about it. Like: Oh, zoner cap in space? Loging bombers/dessys/Bs.
But when it's starting to take constant manner, players are getting annoyed with stuff, that should not happen. Meh, ppl getting annoyed with stuff, that could happened, like constant raids, when it's getting too much.
Too much restrictions...Mkai, I agree, that it sux, for Core, that they can't enter into some Omegas, Sigmas & Taus on caps. But nothing is taken away from zoners. Frankly, I think, that zoners got unfair position, with their level of freedom, while other faction could deserve larger zoi.
Talking from RP view. Moving Nephil into house space for any reason, it's like taking car, to get into shop, which is 300m from you, to purchase a bottle of juice.
Zoners has those strong ships, because, there are no regular force, equeal to house navy (sry Order, but you sux too), therefore, zoners should rely only on themself much, or at least, hold on long enough, before help from Order/BHG arrive.
In house space, unlike the edge/border worlds, as you could notice, strong presence of law keeping forces, with developed transportation system, so reinf. will come soon enough. In such conditions, usage of anything larger than transport for cargo and liner for people, is wasting of resources. It's like putting a space suit, just for an ordinary walk.
RE: The end of zonerzonerzoner - Rewrite the Zoner ID - Echo 7-7 - 06-01-2014
(05-31-2014, 09:41 PM)Lythrilux Wrote: Could we have some dev/admin input on this idea please?
Well, you can't change the list of House systems to include both the systems listed in bold and italics; it has to stay as what it already is. Therefore, restricting Zoner caps from entering House systems is likely too small an area for what that approach is requesting, but yet restricting them from systems with a Jump Gate might be slightly overbearing. Therefore, what if they were restricted from systems with two or more Jump Gates? (Sorry if that's already been raised, I didn't bother to read most of the preceding seven pages.)
Regardless, if it was up to me to re-write the ID, I would at least have a line saying that Cruisers and Battleships are restricted from entering House systems (as defined by the server rules for docking). This would not apply for the Zoner factions with custom IDs, mostly because that would be a bit too harsh on TAZ, who I believe should at least be able to pass through Liberty/Bretonia under escort.
RE: The end of zonerzonerzoner - Rewrite the Zoner ID - Sabru - 06-01-2014
(06-01-2014, 02:28 AM)Echo 7-7 Wrote:(05-31-2014, 09:41 PM)Lythrilux Wrote: Could we have some dev/admin input on this idea please?
Well, you can't change the list of House systems to include both the systems listed in bold and italics; it has to stay as what it already is. Therefore, restricting Zoner caps from entering House systems is likely too small an area for what that approach is requesting, but yet restricting them from systems with a Jump Gate might be slightly overbearing. Therefore, what if they were restricted from systems with two or more Jump Gates? (Sorry if that's already been raised, I didn't bother to read most of the preceding seven pages.)
Regardless, if it was up to me to re-write the ID, I would at least have a line saying that Cruisers and Battleships are restricted from entering House systems (as defined by the server rules for docking). This would not apply for the Zoner factions with custom IDs, mostly because that would be a bit too harsh on TAZ, who I believe should at least be able to pass through Liberty/Bretonia under escort.
the two or more JGs restriction sounds good to TAZ.