(02-26-2018, 06:58 PM)Thyrzul Wrote:

(02-26-2018, 06:33 PM)Karlotta Wrote: Even though I never really said or implied "who are admins to tell me what to do", I should probably point out to you that in fact, it's not the admins job to tell me what to do. Their job is to write rules and make sure everyone follows them, and to stick to that instead of telling people what to do individually. Not sure why you keep mentioning devs, because neither is it their job to tell me what to do, nor can I remember a dev telling me or anyone else what to do.

So what's the difference between admins defining the boundaries of what you can or cannot do through writing and enforcing rules instead of talking directly to you? What's the difference between devs defining the boundaries of what you can or cannot do through defining factions and developing the story instead of talking directly to you? The former alternative of both questions are their tasks (not really jobs, since they aren't paid for it), whether you agree with that or not.

(02-26-2018, 06:58 PM)Thyrzul Wrote: This proposal isn't against any admin or dev action or decision, it is meant to amend a lack of ruling in order to give meaning to how devs defined factions, Lyth's version through prohibition, mine through consequence enforcement through monetary loss.

(02-26-2018, 07:02 PM)Karlotta Wrote: It has something to do with people making up a law so they can shoot someone they don't like.

(02-26-2018, 07:02 PM)Karlotta Wrote: Hint: It has something to do with people making up a law so they can shoot someone they don't like.

(02-26-2018, 07:19 PM)Thyrzul Wrote:

(02-26-2018, 07:02 PM)Karlotta Wrote: It has something to do with people making up a law so they can shoot someone they don't like.

What's that got to do with anything in this thread?

(02-26-2018, 07:19 PM)Thyrzul Wrote:

These proposals aren't aiming at that, these proposals are aiming at restricting or enforcing consequences on those venturing where it doesn't make sense for them to venture. Nobody is any less permitted to shoot them down on their local characters with sufficient RP and reason, and nobody would be any more permitted to do so should any of these proposals be implemented.

(02-26-2018, 07:19 PM)Thyrzul Wrote:

What the actual fck are you talking about? Conspiracies again?

(02-26-2018, 07:53 PM)Karlotta Wrote: But we were talking about deleting ships, and people who find reasons to shoot someone so they can delete their ship

(02-24-2018, 01:22 AM)Thyrzul Wrote:

What do you folks think if instead of locking capital ships to ZoIs, we'd impose consequences, like cash penalty of a few ten millions, upon PvP death? The freedom to go anywhere remains, but consequences would finally exist, and not just for two hours each time you are caught. Would consequences be better than restrictions?

(02-26-2018, 02:29 PM)Lythrilux Wrote: So I had an idea. Anyone remember Black.Scorpion? It was a 'defecting' Liberty Carrier that went around with really edgy RP about how he has to kill everyone. So he did just that, without an SRP or Terrorist ID, and went around killing people.

The admins decided that, instead of outright punishing him, they would allow him to continue what he was doing with one rule: his ship would be deleted if it was destroyed (with evidence posted by the player collecting the blue message).

I think an approach like this could work. It allows people to have freedom in exploring 'high-quality RP' with a clearly defined consequence.

(02-26-2018, 03:27 PM)Thyrzul Wrote:

(02-26-2018, 03:26 PM)Silverlight Wrote: Have capital ships be deleted upon death.
That would make them much more impressive and rare in game (I know this idea is hated by most of the community but it would massively increase their ingamerp worth

+1

(02-26-2018, 07:02 PM)Karlotta Wrote: It has something to do with people making up a law so they can shoot someone they don't like.

(02-26-2018, 03:27 PM)Thyrzul Wrote:

(02-26-2018, 03:26 PM)Silverlight Wrote: Have capital ships be deleted upon death.
That would make them much more impressive and rare in game (I know this idea is hated by most of the community but it would massively increase their ingamerp worth

+1

(02-26-2018, 08:13 PM)Karlotta Wrote:

(02-26-2018, 03:27 PM)Thyrzul Wrote:

(02-26-2018, 03:26 PM)Silverlight Wrote: Have capital ships be deleted upon death.
That would make them much more impressive and rare in game (I know this idea is hated by most of the community but it would massively increase their ingamerp worth

+1

Note the dates of the quotes. So "still stuck" is hardly accurate for my side.

It also seems to me as if you're just trying to change the subject after your arguments failed.

(02-26-2018, 03:43 PM)Thyrzul Wrote:

(02-26-2018, 03:35 PM)TheShooter36 Wrote: A big fat no from me. It would create a cryfest

Even mentioning it does create the cryfest already. That's why I didn't propose the idea. But I couldn't resist +1-ing someone else having the balls to drop that in.

(02-26-2018, 09:24 PM)Thyrzul Wrote:

Holy sh!t, did you really consider that as a serious response? After all these walls of text I just drop a mere "+1", coupled with my following post (which I quote below), one could easily guess that I was joking with that.

...

In case it wasn't clear enough, I'm not proposing deletion of ships as a consequence. God forbid anyone allowing themselves a pun while debating with you as it'll obviously turn into another surface for attacks. EDIT: On the other hand, you were the (only) one talking about deletion of ships ever since those posts.

(02-26-2018, 05:40 PM)Thyrzul Wrote:

(02-26-2018, 05:22 PM)Karlotta Wrote:

(02-26-2018, 03:58 PM)Lythrilux Wrote: Alright, I'll delete my Core cap next time it leaves it's ZoI when it's not supposed to

Exactly.

"when it's not supposed to"

Because you're the one who decides who is "supposed to" do what.

That again starts to sound like everybody should have limitless and consequence-free control over their own decisions to a point it again defeats the purpose of a good few features of this game. Like, who are devs and admins, IDs, faction info pages, etc to tell me who I am, what to do, to limit me into a single lore, boundaries, set of goals of a single faction? I fly my ship wherever I want, I do whatever I want, fekk the system. Right?

Deleting ships sounds like a good idea, I'll start deleting ours wherever they fly outside of our ZoI once I'll be able to do the same with all Council ships in the game. Like, why would we be the only ones to uphold RP standards? Oh wait, I forgot, because we are the official faction. Too bad that detail is always forgotten somehow, every time the subject of differences between officials and indies is being discussed. It's always just about elitism, powermongering, bias and conspiracies, even if half of that is far from the truth for a good few years now.

Don't worry, no [C]-CLN- tagged Redemption will leave our ZoI defined on our ID with my consent without consequences. I can guarantee that, at least regarding officials.

(02-26-2018, 08:45 PM)Ash Wrote: We were doing so well and then you had to go and say something like 'delete all self declared SRP caps'. That tastes bitter no matter how much you sugar coat it.

One, you're heavily dipping into evidence from a single case study for each one of your points and arguing that it can be applied universally. Wrong. All this has proven is that it works in this instance and so carries little weight in the grand conclusions you are trying to sell.

Two, I've just about lost hope for any reasonable outcome from this discussion as it has progressed. It's easy to write this matter off as a personal one off the bat, but the more we seem to uncover the more it seems to be leaning that way. Fact is there's a recurrant demographic among players here preaching that we should stomp out 'troublesome' indie caps. All of which players have progressed extensively in the game and have had ample time to secure a significant nest egg to fund and establish their cap characters. Now from this very comfortable position that the current, more relaxed restrictions have helped facilitate do they preach that these rules should be reigned in for other players.

Frankly I don't believe you if you were to say that you've never taken a cap outside your ZoI intentionally or otherwise. To take away the liberties of other players once you've had you've had enough time to enjoy them is unfair on so many levels. Securing your position on top while making the prospect of caps less appetising to other players? Give me a break.

(02-26-2018, 07:02 PM)Karlotta Wrote: It has something to do with people making up a law so they can shoot someone they don't like.

This quote has been absolutely rinsed in this discussion and yet it's all you need to read to understand the past 14 pages. While you'd argue this matter isn't personal I'd certainly say that it's hardly universal. You don't like a certain type of character, sure, but this does not make this issue systematic. If you want an idea of the existing restrictions in place that are already playing in your favour then go over the last few words in Vendetta's post.