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+--- Thread: Gytrash's rant. (/showthread.php?tid=112598)
RE: Gytrash's rant. - Omega472 - 03-01-2014
So wait, is it about the ship's capability or just it being ugly now?
A lot of ships have been remodeled without warning. A lot. And many more will be.
RE: Gytrash's rant. - t0l - 03-01-2014
Does this ever end?
RE: Gytrash's rant. - Dead Reckoning - 03-01-2014
(03-01-2014, 03:11 AM)Omega472 Wrote: So wait, is it about the ship's capability or just it being ugly now?
A lot of ships have been remodeled without warning. A lot. And many more will be.
I'd say it's both.
The current idea suggests that we go from a self-sufficient colony ship that can handle its own defensive tasks in an elegantly designed ship to a ship which will almost certainly require escorts (on a server that is hurting for population, that is difficult) and appears as though Livadia pieced together whatever pieces of scrap were floating by. A happy medium exists of reducing the Nephs defensive capabilities which some misuse as offensive capabilities. Reducing heavies would still let it defend it self, but would certainly take away some offensive teeth.
Also it's hard to maintain RP of a long lived ship handed down through generations, knowing every bolt and then suddenly have every bolt on it change and maintain that familiarity. Remodels have typically been fairly similar to the one they are replacing in my experience.
RE: Gytrash's rant. - Reid - 03-01-2014
(02-28-2014, 07:45 AM)Reidft Wrote:(02-28-2014, 07:41 AM)Dead Reckoning Wrote: I can't say I've heard of a Liner going into deep space and looking for a new home. Liners to me have been about taking people from one established planet to another along established trade corridors with Naval patrols in the area for safety. None of that exists for Zoners, nor should it.
Shetland, Hawaii, Golden Dragon, that-one-DSE-liner-sold-to-the-Reavers, those Liners sitting in Gallia
List goes on of Liners that are self sufficiant
I'm still waiting on your guys' logic behind this one
RE: Gytrash's rant. - lIceColon - 03-01-2014
At any rate- there should be a seperate classification for exploration ships - emphasis on survivability, sustainability (and perhaps even speed?)
RE: Gytrash's rant. - Crackpunch - 03-01-2014
Still waiting on Gytrash to post a rebuttal.
RE: Gytrash's rant. - LunaticOnTheGrass - 03-01-2014
ANSWER US YOU COWARD
RE: Gytrash's rant. - MrWeeks - 03-01-2014
I quote here the discovery 4.86 "Nephilim" Zoner Dreadnought info from the outdated wiki. (If you could post the infocard that would be great but I deleted 4.86 and fresh installed 4.87, so I don't have access to the infocard anymore.)
Quote:The new upgrade to the aging "Juggernaut" class Zoner capital ship was named "Nephilim" after the race of legendary giants. Zoners have customized these vessels to fill multiple roles on the modern battlefield as well as serve as heavy transports and supply ships for the most remote regions of space. Ships of this class take up unbelievably vast amounts of resources and expert engineering, but are also designed to be in service for several generations, justifying their great cost. The Zoners who travel into the unknown of deep space trust these ships to sustain them during long explorations that are expected to take several generations, and thus outfit the ships to be capable of light industry and hydroponic food production during the voyage. The Nephilim is also capable of making planetfall and establishing a fully autonomous colony. The new Nephilim is equipped with an expanded docking bay, upgraded navigation and tactical stations, and improved fire control computers. Its reactor core is far more efficient than the previous design, propelling the ship with the same power core used in the "Leviathan" class. It is not known how many of these ships are deployed by Zoners or to what exact use they are all put, but it has become a certainty that Zoners do possess the capability to produce them.
I now quote the infocard from the current patch, to which the ship has been renamed the "Nephilim" Zoner Colony Ship
Quote:The new upgrade to the aging "Jinkusu"-class was named the "Nephilim", after a race of legendary giants. The Zoners have customized these vessels to fill multiple roles on depending on the needs of crew, from heavy cargo transportation and logistics management, to miniature mobile freeports prowling the edges of known space.
Due to their sheer size, ships of this class are expensive and slow to manufacture, but are designed to be in service for decades, justifying their great cost. The Zoners who travel into the unknown depths of space trust these ships to sustain them during long voyages, and thus outfit the ships to be capable of light industry and hydroponic food production during the voyage. The Nephilim is also capable of making planetfall and establishing a small colony.
The new Nephilim is equipped with an expanded docking bay, upgraded navigational controls, and an improved defensive grid. Its reactor core is more efficient than the previous design, propelling the ship with the same power core used in the "Leviathan" class.
Now what I see here is a deliberate planned future change by the devs, namely in the fact that they changed the infocard to exclude the fact that they have the capability to produce the vessels.
Quote:It is not known how many of these ships are deployed by Zoners or to what exact use they are all put, but it has become a certainty that Zoners do possess the capability to produce them.has been rescinded.
Also, notice the following modification from:
Quote:Zoners have customized these vessels to fill multiple roles on the modern battlefield as well as serve as heavy transports and supply ships for the most remote regions of space. Ships of this class take up unbelievably vast amounts of resources and expert engineering, but are also designed to be in service for several generations, justifying their great cost. The Zoners who travel into the unknown of deep space trust these ships to sustain them during long explorations that are expected to take several generations, and thus outfit the ships to be capable of light industry and hydroponic food production during the voyage.
To
Quote:The Zoners have customized these vessels to fill multiple roles on depending on the needs of crew, from heavy cargo transportation and logistics management, to miniature mobile freeports prowling the edges of known space.
Due to their sheer size, ships of this class are expensive and slow to manufacture, but are designed to be in service for decades, justifying their great cost. The Zoners who travel into the unknown depths of space trust these ships to sustain them during long voyages, and thus outfit the ships to be capable of light industry and hydroponic food production during the voyage.
It is literally as if the devs selected the text from "the modern battlefield" to "expected to take several generations" and pressed Backspace, then proceeded to change the vessel from a warship which can carry cargo (which I think is a bit wrong) to "heavy cargo transportation and logistics management, to miniature mobile freeports prowling the edges of known space"
(evidence provided by the redundant "on" in the second edit. "fill multiple roles on depending on the needs")
Also
Quote:The Nephilim is also capable of making planetfall and establishing a fully autonomous colony.
has been changed to
Quote:The Nephilim is also capable of making planetfall and establishing a small colony.
While I see this as a potential reason for renaming it to the Zoner Colony Ship I don't see why this was done, the way I interpret it is this: "In addendum to the vessel being a battleship it is also capable of making planetfall and establishing a small autonomous colony." Implying that it was not expressly designed for this purpose but rather has the capability to do so and thus will create a colony that is autonomous and therefore not dependant on outside help and/or resources. (if the correct conditions are present of course)
But of course this will sacrifice the ship in the process much like the original colony ships were:
![[Image: ZfXWIZx.png]](http://i.imgur.com/ZfXWIZx.png)
IMO These changes were ill-conceived in the patch from 4.86 to 4.87 and now the effect is snowballing. I seriously think that the devs should look at the changes that were made in the previous patches and releases and very seriously consider the changes that they wish to implement to the Zoners (And any of the other factions/ships you might want to make changes to.)
If anything I think that the Nephilim should be almost switched with the Leviathan, with the Leviathan being the mainstay of the fleet and the Nephilim being the very special RP ship. Which is SRP capable of establishing a planetary colony but sacrificing the ship in the process. This will make the vessels require a remodel (if that's what you really are itching for, devs)
But the changes need to be proposed and discussed properly with the community, not just put out there and said "This is and this will be."
And finally, thanks for reading!
RE: Gytrash's rant. - Echo 7-7 - 03-01-2014
(03-01-2014, 06:29 AM)RichardNW Wrote: ...
To put it in simple terms, the infocard was OP, and so it was nerfed. Considering also that the design of the Jinkusu/Nephilim suggest that it is in no way capable of planetary landing without being ripped apart (and there are no canonical instances of this occuring anyway), that line should probably be removed as well.
RE: Gytrash's rant. - MrWeeks - 03-01-2014
(03-01-2014, 07:07 AM)Echo 7-7 Wrote:(03-01-2014, 06:29 AM)RichardNW Wrote: ...
To put it in simple terms, the infocard was OP, and so it was nerfed. Considering also that the design of the Jinkusu/Nephilim suggest that it is in no way capable of planetary landing without being ripped apart (and there are no canonical instances of this occuring anyway), that line should probably be removed as well.
Not necessarily... If you could provide adequate retro-thrust while descending at a non-orbital (geostationary) speed relative to the planet you would be able to make a slow non violent planetfall. (all theoretical of course)
And who says that shielding technologies have not advanced to the point that allows the shields to take the brunt of atmospheric re-entry? I mean, even though gameplay-wise your hull is damaged regardless of shielding when you enter a planet's atmosphere I'm sure that technologies would have been developed for this to be possible.