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+--- Thread: House, Military, Police and Intelligence IDs (/showthread.php?tid=129217)
RE: House, Military, Police and Intelligence IDs - Jack_Henderson - 05-11-2015
(05-11-2015, 01:23 PM)Laura C. Wrote: Also, here is your answer for any drafts, Jack.
You did not read my draft then, I assume. Because it implements Blodo's idea and restores all other rights back to normal.
Quote:Basically I´m the one of those who are castrating RP of all corporations for ages (to quote what was said before) because there was ONE SINGLE incident some time ago when IMG got punished for shooting unlawful bounty hunter in Omega-7 next to battleship Schwerin. He was hunting them only outside Rheinland so not criminal in the house. They attacked him, he reported it. I refused to ignore it ooRPly (as some people suggested) as well as ignore it inRPly (as some other people suggested), made investigation and issued a fine. Now I´m put as one of the major culprits for this change because of this and because I´m obviously ruining and raping RP of others when I have that stupid idea that actions made inRP should have consequencies. What a fool I was...
No, you are not the only one.
It's Houses taxing Borderworld bases in far-away dark matter clouds. => PoB law changes followed and pointed into that direction
It's FR5s screwing over factions that broke laws in Borderworlds (in accordance with their ID/repsheet; see ALG in Liberty; IC in Rheinland; Zoners in Rheinland)
It's about players using cloaked ships in Borderworlds to hunt for these law infractions bc of the screw-over potential.
It's about House lawfuls restricting the valid borderworld roleplay of factions (prime examples: Junkers, Hogosha) that sometimes clash for years.
It's the constant (more or less hidden) threat of dire consequences that some lawful faction player apply (be it fines or FR5s)
It's the possibility to screw others over that is abused to restrict roleplay that was meant to be done and that would enrich many IDs.
Portraying yourself as the victim here is pretty funny, after people acting like you have been restricting the rp of many factions for years.
And for the record: the admin move is not triggered by the Wagner-IMG-RFP case, at least I made no suggestion/request/report. I was as surprised as most when it happened. But yes, I think a change is really needed. Blodo's idea might do the trick and make larger changes unnecessary. But something needs to be done.
RE: House, Military, Police and Intelligence IDs - t0l - 05-11-2015
(05-11-2015, 01:36 PM)Jack_Henderson Wrote: It's FR5s screwing over factions that broke laws in Borderworlds (in accordance with their ID/repsheet; see ALG in Liberty
I recall the DSE-ALG incident/thing taking place inside of Liberty, not the BWs.
RE: House, Military, Police and Intelligence IDs - jammi - 05-11-2015
(05-11-2015, 01:23 PM)Laura C. Wrote: What more can I say than jammi for admin? It this change would be discussed BEFORE implementing, it would save lot of drama and the best solution would be more easy to find as we can see in this thread. Also, here is your answer for any drafts, Jack.Been there, done that. pls no.
(05-11-2015, 01:36 PM)Jack_Henderson Wrote:Just to note, if we apply Blodo's suggestions, no ID changes are necessary in the slightest. The problem is with reports on the forum. Put the rules pertaining to reports on the forum... on the forum.(05-11-2015, 01:23 PM)Laura C. Wrote: Also, here is your answer for any drafts, Jack.
You did not read my draft then, I assume. Because it implements Blodo's idea and restores all other rights back to normal.
Adding those cavats to the IDs themselves makes them unnecessarily wordy when we should be making them as concise as possible and as easy as possible for the majority to understand. There is no way to send someone a screenshot of evidence in-game. It's a redundant alteration.
Roll the changes back so the IDs are in their original form, then implement the simple fixes that actually address the issue appropriately. Easy peasy, lemon squeezey. No hacking up of IDs is even required.
RE: House, Military, Police and Intelligence IDs - Jack_Henderson - 05-11-2015
jammi, then make it a server rule.
Fine with that.
As long as the result is that one can do what the IDs say in the Borderworlds without instantly getting harsh repercussions from a group that should not even be present enough in the region to realize that something happened. This will however also cause awkward situations if done via server rules.
RE: House, Military, Police and Intelligence IDs - Thunderer - 05-11-2015
Blodo's idea in the second bracket sounds good.
RE: House, Military, Police and Intelligence IDs - jammi - 05-11-2015
Probably wouldn't need to even go in server rules. Let's face it, your problem here isn't with indies. It's the potential reaction of official factions who have the power to use faction rights.
So codify this into the faction responsibilities that are the counterpart to the rights.
End result? Law enforcement can still do what they should be able to without arbitrary invisible walls stopping them, and offended corporates will have to request more patrols in that area instead of demanding immediate action based on supplied screens.
RE: House, Military, Police and Intelligence IDs - Fluffyball - 05-11-2015
It might sound controversial, but I slowly have a feeling that devs and admins doesn't give a single penny about the players' roleplay.
*Points at Rheinland Military, which wasn't asked about gates destruction.*
*Points at Gallic Royal Navy, which wasn't even asked about Oubli destruction or event as a whole.*
*Points out Kusari and Rheinland, being allowed to patrol mutually in Honshu and Stuttgart - guess what, ignored.
*Points at Gallia and Rheinland roleplay about alliance and hitting onto Liberty, ignored completely.*
*Points at Bretonia, which, all in all, should have lose the New London after all roleplay GRN made.*
*Points at Kusari's embargo onto Liberty (year, was it?), that haven't affected Liberty at all, while it should be a great deal as Liberty's based onto imported goods - ignored completely, AGAIN!*
I have a very strong feeling that all they care about is Liberty, a overpowered and overhyped house that should be surely affected by many things roleplayed by other official factions. Because, well, Space America always win.
RE: House, Military, Police and Intelligence IDs - Stoner_Steve - 05-11-2015
(05-11-2015, 11:57 AM)Croft Wrote: Feedback on the changes would be easier to give if we know the actual reasoning behind said changes, what they are meant to accomplish etc. Right now it's basically open season on every issue relating to the borderworlds.
Which is funny because all new changes usually result from in-server drama but we usually (as players) aren't allowed to point out these issues without someone claiming trial by forum
The real issue no one wants to take on is that FR5's are broken but no official faction is willing to give up that right because at the end of the day its the only real (see long term) consequence there is; bases can be rebuilt, ships re-spawned, but your damned for eternity once an FR5 goes though
RE: House, Military, Police and Intelligence IDs - Zed26 - 05-11-2015
(05-11-2015, 01:36 PM)Jack_Henderson Wrote: It's FR5s screwing over factions that broke laws in Borderworlds (in accordance with their ID/repsheet; see ALG in Liberty
Tal's correct, this was over events that took place within Liberty. I might be wrong, but I can't recall DSE ever crossing paths with ALG in the Borderworlds in recent history. Also, this happened over a year ago. As the one managing DSE's affairs in recent time, I've consciously kept things quiet between ALG and DSE from that point onward (pushing to close our bounties on ALG, etc).
Seeing threads like this and the Faction Leaders' Skype chat, I feel like a lot of people have made mass FR5s some kind of boogeyman that's around every corner when really, almost everyone agrees that it's a pretty crappy thing to FR5 an entire group all the time at the drop of a hat. Instead, we cite a few old examples here and there and recent "near misses" in order to justify knee-jerk changes. In reality, the "near misses" are due to cooler heads agreeing that mass FR5s suck, and each time that happens it reinforces the sentiment that it's a bad idea. As a member of LibGov, I can confirm that a mass FR5 occasionally gets brought up when we discuss crime and punishment simply because we're going over our options, but in recent time it's been shot down just about immediately because we agree that it's poor form.
I'm not totally trashing the change. It's good for all faction to be able to exercise their ID without fear, but not at the cost of creating awkward situations for one side or the other, being unable to act sensibly for fear of the rules. With that said, factions should still have FR5 because legitimate abuses do still occur - we just need to stop thinking of it as the first response.
Anyway, this will certainly require more fine-tuning, but it's been good to see a better level of civility from the community and visible receptiveness from the staff. Need to read more to suggest specific improvements.
RE: House, Military, Police and Intelligence IDs - Ryummel - 05-11-2015
(05-11-2015, 02:14 PM)Toris Gray Wrote: It might sound controversial, but I slowly have a feeling that devs and admins doesn't give a single penny about the players' roleplay.
*Points at Rheinland Military, which wasn't asked about gates destruction.*
*Points at Gallic Royal Navy, which wasn't even asked about Oubli destruction or event as a whole.*
*Points out Kusari and Rheinland, being allowed to patrol mutually in Honshu and Stuttgart - guess what, ignored.
*Points at Gallia and Rheinland roleplay about alliance and hitting onto Liberty, ignored completely.*
*Points at Bretonia, which, all in all, should have lose the New London after all roleplay GRN made.*
*Points at Kusari's embargo onto Liberty (year, was it?), that haven't affected Liberty at all, while it should be a great deal as Liberty's based onto imported goods - ignored completely, AGAIN!*
I have a very strong feeling that all they care about is Liberty, a overpowered and overhyped house that should be surely affected by many things roleplayed by other official factions. Because, well, Space America always win.
And yet we keep playing.