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+--- Thread: When does a core 1 base die ? After 192456 years ? (/showthread.php?tid=99759)
RE: When does a core 1 base die ? After 192456 years ? - Thyrzul - 06-11-2013
(06-11-2013, 07:21 PM)Anaximander Wrote: Because from the Outcast point-of-view that comes before everything, TAZ did indeed shoot down non-hostile Maltese, there's no running from that and it should have had severe consequences if Outcasts are anything like what their infocards, wiki and forum page suggests.
From time to time you seem to hide behind your character's point of view to justify why you, as a player, decide to ignore the rest of the facts, the ones, your character shouldn't care about. Well then, I, as a player, don't care about your character's point of view when I address you as a player and expect you to think and argue as a player. You wanted me to see both sides of the coin, yet you refrain from doing the same, hypocrisy at it's best.
(06-11-2013, 07:21 PM)Anaximander Wrote: Of course, I'm playing a computer game here. All of my characters have 100% safe emergency pods on their ships, but it's fair to assume that in-rp not everyone would survive getting shot down all the time?
So you can only assume there were lethal causalities without anything to back up your assumption. And you base your attacks on such assumptions. Great.
(06-11-2013, 07:21 PM)Anaximander Wrote: I'm not talking about intent, this isn't about intent at all. I'm talking about roleplay consequences. Look, you can't block off a system and shoot down every passing non-registered ship on this roleplay server and say "hey it's not our intent to hurt you, so nevermind what happened. Let's pretend your cargo reached its destination safely, and you secured your profits".
The situation is complex enough that the consequences are the result of several actions. You neither can fly into a wall of platforms just to die and say "oh, well, I didn't read your warning sign, so now my nation will go on a full scale against you, dear religious folks".
(06-11-2013, 07:21 PM)Anaximander Wrote: Of course it was ignored, it would be suicidal for TAZ to do the very same things on their ships because they'd have to face the consequences directly; it's not something Maltese can ignore lore-wise, but because it's a base doing the wetwork and at the same turn a certain brand of forum RP is promoted as a totally delusional oorp excuse for the base's actions, it slides.
You again claim they ignored it, but show no evidence to back it up. (Although I admit, neither did I provide evidence to back up my claims, that's true, but I can look for comm threads in the comm section any time to prove communications between said parties, thus proving that little piece of lore was not ignored.)
(06-11-2013, 07:21 PM)Anaximander Wrote: Aye, but in another thread Rachel Baker told me that there's no room for dissent within the ID/faction system - where does that leave me as a player when my character has leaders that clearly and evidently don't give a damn about their roots, background and citizens, and he is oorply forced to just be fine with that? It screws over people's RP and characters totally when deals are just done like that and we have to blindly accept it.
Ah, c'mon, it is just too easy, your dude got three options:
1.) Make steps in order to reach his goal. Do something in order to trigger a change within the leadership. Eventually become the replacement for them.
2.) Deal with it.
3.) Escape the situation.
Addendum to Option 1: As far as I know there is an option to challenge the official faction. If you don't like the current leadership and are doing well enough, you can replace them any time.
I know it gets boring to read again and again the same advice, "Do something for it", but seriously, stop b*tching about something you don't even lift a finger to do anything against.
1.) Make steps in order to reach his goal. Do something in order to trigger a change within the leadership. Eventually become the replacement for them.
2.) Deal with it.
3.) Escape the situation.
Addendum to Option 1: As far as I know there is an option to challenge the official faction. If you don't like the current leadership and are doing well enough, you can replace them any time.
I know it gets boring to read again and again the same advice, "Do something for it", but seriously, stop b*tching about something you don't even lift a finger to do anything against.
(06-11-2013, 07:21 PM)Anaximander Wrote: Much easier to avoid such situations by just applying common sense when performing hostile actions. In fact, I think that in spirit this is what factions partially vow themselves to with the excellence thing.
What if I tell you other people's concept of common sense is different from yours?
(06-11-2013, 07:21 PM)Anaximander Wrote: I am annoyed that my character is forcefully shaped by official factions, when the reason and rational impact of their actions can be severely questioned by existing lore, however justified those actions are if looked at from solely one angle, namely that Baffin is TAZ sovereign territory.
Nobody shapes your character forcefully, your surroundings and the actions and reactions of your environment do that through you. The only boundaries you have is your ID, your lore, your nation's lore and the server rules.
You argue that it is justified solely from one angle when you yourself attack it again solely from one angle, a different one. Again, hypocrisy. That is why I was telling you that the situation is way more complex and more than simply black and white. And I expected you to judge by that. Instead you refrained to make any judgement besides the one based on your character's narrow minded viewpoint.
You argue that it is justified solely from one angle when you yourself attack it again solely from one angle, a different one. Again, hypocrisy. That is why I was telling you that the situation is way more complex and more than simply black and white. And I expected you to judge by that. Instead you refrained to make any judgement besides the one based on your character's narrow minded viewpoint.
(06-11-2013, 07:21 PM)Anaximander Wrote: That is where I think Official Factions have that special obligation to take into consideration the full scope of possible consequences of their actions, and show temperance and maturity. Not set neutral bases to kill all...
I believe Official factions just did that, unlike you, they took "into consideration the full scope of possible consequences of their actions, and show temperance and maturity." Not to start a stupid war to have revenge for two lost ships... (which actually got refunded)
RE: When does a core 1 base die ? After 192456 years ? - Anaximander - 06-11-2013
Maybe I just expect too much of bases. Not much point in discussing this further, let's agree to disagree.
RE: When does a core 1 base die ? After 192456 years ? - Thyrzul - 06-11-2013
We might as well return to this topic once some regulations has been set regarding PoBs and/or the blacklist feature is introduced already, and see what those things changed.
RE: When does a core 1 base die ? After 192456 years ? - GTB - 06-11-2013
This was covered before in a way, quite similar in fact to the zoner base thing and it's turrents. There was a Gallia faction POB in Tau-31 at one point position near the IMG NPC base, maybe you remember it and I'm not sure which Gallia based faction exactly owned it? That POB turrets shot ships giving them no chance, if you took the jump lanes from Leeds end in Tau-31 to that IMG base in the middle. That player base is not there anymore, neither is another which was plonked in Cambridge right near the Omega 5 JH to catch people unaware with it's turrets coming into Cambridge from Omega 5 JH. Both those bases did the same thing, but both are gone now.
The one in Tau-31 was brought up about it doing the same thing ages ago, the response was in favour of the base staying where it was and said to be fine, even though it killed people as soon as you exited the jump-lane if not OK with that Gallia faction. So to be fair, the Zoner base is not the only POB that's done this kind of thing, there have been two others and things went in favour of the POB being OK doing it.
There probably should be more guidelines to solve this from happening again, where you cannot put a base, like not right next to a JH, or positioned right next to ships exiting a jump-lane (if you do they can't have defence turrets). Regardless of what excuses those two POB owners might have given back then, they was put in those two locations simply to kill people unaware.
You have rules about PVP engagement, a warning must be given first to the other player before you open fire. So why can a POB give no warning at all, it makes a mockery out your server rules. Just build a POB if you want to kill people willy nilly and position it near a JH with turrets (no rules of engagement needed). Sit back and watch people go BOOM!
What's been said already is the biggest issue I guess, lack of faction blacklist you can use for POB.