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+--- Thread: Information about upcoming Zoner changes (/showthread.php?tid=112325)
RE: Information about upcoming Zoner changes - Zen_Mechanics - 02-23-2014
(02-23-2014, 02:40 PM)Kazinsal Wrote: Dude. The ZA lore does not count as an argument for zoner battleships here. It's more of an argument against them.
Its not ZA, its a friends idea of making sense of the things that people always claim not to have sense. In other words, a combination of vanilla and disco - to the present moment. And I'll just add one more thing, The job is for the official factions, not me, not za, not the dev, no one. And as a person, as a zoner, and as a ZA, I fully give them the permission to do what it is required to make sure that we all have a good time. And despite our problems, these are the things that we all agree to.
Last minute edit : If you truly seek balance/justice/fairness, you know, the things that you guys are supposed to inspire for, let us the zoner players take care of it, The phoenix are more than capable of doing this, and perhaps this thing can combine us all, despite our disagreements, to work together. Yes, Id like that.
RE: Information about upcoming Zoner changes - Doria - 02-23-2014
(02-23-2014, 02:32 PM)Tel-Aviv Wrote: Every blow that came across we had to handle, and adapt, some things however are not that easy. You simply can't strip something that in its nature holds the faction, I mean - sure its only a battleship, but even those who don't fly it that often understand that its part of us, and a big part. This ain't the normal nerf/buff on the little things, you are asking us to accept a downfall that will probably kill us all in terms of activity and joy. Having said that, without being "rude" - Why don't you pick on the red hessians instead, why is it acceptable to deminish zoners at every chance they get, masqurading it with false evidence of "lack of lore, lolwuts, etc" - when it truth, there are better candidates. I'd like to know why it is not reasonable for zoners, who pretty much hold the entire BW/Edge world in their pockets , having battleships. And why on earth do you think it is possible for a group of miners to have a battleship? - Because of A.B.C.D - Im sure the hessies can bring a perfectly reasonable explaination of them having caps, but you don't give us the chance to present our explaination because the dev team continues to change things and that sends us to square ONE all over again.
I never thoght this day would come, but it has. I completely agree with Tel in this one. This dev move is ridiculous. As echo said, this should be done across the board then, limit caps for ALL factions. Do it for all, or dont do it at all.
But instead, lets go frak the zoners again. Lets take them defense ships out and put a corsair battleship in omega 49. How nice of you. Next thing canaria will have a sair IFF... Lets kill another vanilla faction, like we did with the LR, but keep those ridiculous non-vanilla factions around.
If you want half the players that can actually RP give up of the game in favor of pvp ho's, go for it. That's what you are doing.
RE: Information about upcoming Zoner changes - Singularity - 02-23-2014
I don't understand why Zoners cannot have Battleships !!!
Means they are at far deeper space, more close proximities to the Nomads and the Intelligent Machines while in Vanilla, as said, it was there station which was destroyed.
Means what if tomorrow iRP, the machines get hacked or malfunctioned and there programs make them attack against humanity. I know its a rather "not feasible concept" but a situation like this leaves a class of people completely unable to defend themselves without their Capitals.
If not the machine situation, replace it with Nomad situation.
RE: Information about upcoming Zoner changes - Omega472 - 02-23-2014
If we really want to get into it, there has to be somewhere that the line is drawn between logical and fair. If the game was completely fair, it wouldn't be logical. If the game was completely logical, it wouldn't be fair. There are some aspects fairness can apply to, however that doesn't mean everything is fair. I know you've heard the life's rough line a billion types, just as many as I've heard this is just a game, it's meant to be fair line. The point is, if the balance tips too far in either direction, everyone will be displeased (More so than everyone is displeased now. Devs are good, but not please every single person good).
And Tel, the Hessians are constantly active in combat, and engaging in combat. All of 'em.
They're kind of shooty people.
And I've yet to see an answer to my question, what purpose do these ships serve now that makes everyone so against the nerfs? Because let's face it, if it's truly about the RP a person(dedicated to RP, mind you) could fly a gunless ship and be happier than a Nom in a Marduk.
And regarding Tel's double edit.
That would be absolutely lovely, I'm sure, but it's not something that can happen instantly. As it is to my understanding, the Zoners are for the most part nomadic in life style. Why, then, would they have access to a ship of such immense power? There has to be logic. It may not seem fair that your things are being nerfed, but it's logical. Lore is RP, yes, but it's a development of RP, a development everyone agrees makes the mod better. If the Junkers were to, say, ask for a dreadnaught and claim it makes sense, I guarantee they'd be met with the exact same response, if not harsher (Not picking on junkers, just using an example)
RE: Information about upcoming Zoner changes - RedEclipse - 02-23-2014
(02-23-2014, 02:40 PM)Kazinsal Wrote: Dude. The ZA lore does not count as an argument for zoner battleships here. It's more of an argument against them.
A good reminder, what's a true problem. It was so problematic to shoot ORI, back in these days? So much drama around ZA is only about there were no controls on regulations of POBs, so I don't get it - you decide to blame zoner capitals for that, instead face with - POBs were root of the problem? If Zoner cap went crazy and go into core systems, it'll be only fun for house players to shoot down that thing. But POBs were invincible and no one knew how to end this metagamnig hell.
RE: Information about upcoming Zoner changes - Sath - 02-23-2014
I cant find any good reason to remove the Zoner caps.No one seems to answer my question though.Lore wise its marginally acceptable for the Zoners to have protection due to the wilderness of the Omicrons and some of their bases which are very close to the Nomad areas.And if the Zoners shoot others apart from Nomads without RP,they will be sanctioned.
That is enough to keep the lolwuts away.Removing them altogether in the name of lore,which doesnt state that they cannot have capships,is totally absurd.No one reasons with me though,for my reasonable questions,in that case I will have to come up with some unreasonable questions like these.
RE: Information about upcoming Zoner changes - Singularity - 02-23-2014
(02-23-2014, 02:47 PM)Omega472 Wrote: And I've yet to see an answer to my question, what purpose do these ships serve now that makes everyone so against the nerfs? Because let's face it, if it's truly about the RP a person(dedicated to RP, mind you) could fly a gunless ship and be happier than a Nom in a Marduk.
And I haven't seen answer to this, what purpose do the new BattleTransports serve, that is making everyone of us .. ? Because let's face it, if its truly about RP , and (as you said) is happy to fly a gunless ship, then why are we having the caps changed to Transports with GUNS !!!
RE: Information about upcoming Zoner changes - Omega472 - 02-23-2014
You seem to be taking this as if they're completely replacing the ship. To my understanding, they're simply modifying their class and how they stand as compared to other ships. You're free to RP just as you were before.
And if I recall correctly, caps are more dangerous than transports anyways?
RE: Information about upcoming Zoner changes - Mercarryn - 02-23-2014
So, I have now read through all these pages, and it does not come as a surprise to me how many those were with that topic.
Okay, first of all: Nice models JInx, seriusly, although I have to say your intended Aquilon or Nephilim model would more fit to the Resheph.
About your idea to change the zoner capital ships in to mere battletransports, I would like to remind you of a proposal of mine on another threa:
(01-21-2014, 01:21 PM)Mercarryn Wrote: Hmm, just an idea that perhaps might be a REAL compromise, i.e. keeping the ships as they are ( to some extent) and at the same time ensure that there are less Zoner indies abusing the caps as offensive weapons.
All zoner caps (cruiser and higher) are able to mount both their appropriate weapons (means cruiser weapons on cruisers and bs weapons on the bs), and mount transport turrets on the same slots.
And here comes the real important change: The normal zoner ID get a little additional sentence in their Infocard, something like:
-May only mount transport turrets on capital ships of cruiser size and higher.
Before anyone starts to say: "WTF are you suggesting, Merc? Impossible!"
Do you perhaps remember the Ahoudori in combination with the Researcher ID?
Ahoudori is able to mount both gunboat and transport turrets. And the researcher ID in 4.85 only allowed the use of an Ahoudori in combination with transport turrets.
Result: The Zoner caps in combination with normal zoner ID could not be abused for acting like military, yet other factions that can utilize them like the Order (Yes, I know, I sound biased, see my last post) can utilize them as military ships with some roleplay reason. The same can be applied to the three official factions.
How does that sound?
And this was your answer to it:
(01-21-2014, 01:38 PM)Jinx Wrote: @Merc:
good compromise - but the transport weapons are not balanced for the sizes of ships like the juggernaut. - their ranges are simply too low -- BUT with adjusted models - that compromise might actually fly. ( think of the suggested ships - with the option to mount capital class weaponry - thats fine if it is agreed on )
But now it seems the devs want to nerf the zoner capital ships for all zoner factions. Offical ones and unofficial. Please take in mind, that the change of zoner caps will also affect the Order as in the past some RP was done toget access to zoner capital ships. Order|CV-Inquisitor (Nephilim) and my 141|Sobek (Aquilon) are a good example of this. And back then they were requested as capital ships, not battletransports.
So, what will now happen to those order players like me that set up some RP work into motion to get such a cap for the order? Would it still not be an option to let the official zoners and order players use cap weapons on the nephilim and Aquilon and set up a restriction line on the zoner ID which limits the use of these ships in combination of transport turrets?
Because in general I agree with you that there should be a certain restriction on the zoner caps, sure. But it should be done in a way that still leaves rooms for options. Yours does not really offer such.
So, I ask the Devs once more to think of this proposal - especially since Phoenix seem to approve it, too - instead of going a way of "no alternative to solve the zoner cap abuse".
RE: Information about upcoming Zoner changes - Sath - 02-23-2014
(02-23-2014, 03:03 PM)Omega472 Wrote: You seem to be taking this as if they're completely replacing the ship. To my understanding, they're simply modifying their class and how they stand as compared to other ships. You're free to RP just as you were before.
And if I recall correctly, caps are more dangerous than transports anyways?
How does making a Colony BS class ship into a battletransport doesnt mean "replacing".No explanations till now.And what can we RP with a battletransport that was before RPed as a Colony ship?The ship was huge and very much armoured to protect their inhabitants and the domes from the Nomads that were near their doorstep,just some steps away from their settlements in Omicron Delta.The current battletransport has huge cargo,is offering no defense against any threat that might be posed.That is just a blockade who were RPing with their juggys for this long.I even know a guy who bought it to just use it as an orphanage.What do you think they get in return,a completely useless restricted battletransport,not even worth a part of the time and ingame cash they invested into RPing and buying these things.