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+--- Thread: ZA: End war talk (/showthread.php?tid=103684)
RE: ZA: End war talk - Thyrzul - 09-01-2013
(09-01-2013, 11:32 PM)Oorn Wrote: From what I have heard, order aggression came before system lockdown. Otherwise my arguments indeed are pointless.
Order aggression first came as a response of not handing over those remains (as far as I know and I don't even know to what degree was that "aggression"). After then ZA started their blockade, effectively misusing their own bases in regards of their original purpose.
(09-01-2013, 11:32 PM)Oorn Wrote: I kinda understand what "we at war no more rp" means now. So far Omicron arguments are "we have bigger fleet so you obey us, if not we kill you". Perfect display indeed...
Too bad all official faction haters already left, it would never been fun shitstorm.
You interpret that quote whatever way you may want, but you cannot change lore that easily to just simply say no matter how bigger Order fleet is, ZA will win. This doesn't work like that. And then again, it's not all black and white, earlier I've posted a detailed scenario with multiple options ZA could have chosen to continue their nomnom material business and live in peace with Order at the same time. That argument of "we have bigger fleet so you obey us, if not we kill you" is actually pretty realistic, that's how stuff go in the real world too, doesn't it? Thing is, Order doesn't have to know ZA disobeys them, and ZA had their choice to continue their stuff behind the scenes. They have chosen open conflict, now they cry half of the community is biased against them. I wish for them growing some balls and take the consequences of their actions and not hide behind imba PoBs and crappy arguments.
RE: ZA: End war talk - Agmen of Eladesor - 09-02-2013
(09-01-2013, 11:30 AM)Tel-Aviv Wrote: One thing that should be clear : ZA did not shoot everyone, the pobs did -
That one sentence is probably the stupidest thing I've heard you say.
Those PoB's just showed up on their own one day, and no one built them, right?
Who exactly decided to go against both the lore of the Zoners as previously set up on the server in the first place, AND did something incredibly stupid towards your own 'secret' allies? I think that mirror is showing the reflection of the ZA in it.
Again, YEARS of both in-game and on-forum RP support the position of the Order here. Would you be screaming so much if the Core was the one shooting the Zoners? Hell, we've done it before. (Score, Core 1, Zoners 0). Oh, and then it happened again. (Score, Core 2, Zoners 0.)
I'm notoriously known for being stubborn - and right now, I'm looking quite reasonable compared to you. I've even TOLD you how to get this resolved and end the damned war - you actually follow the lore of the Zoners and 'surrender' to the Order. That's pretty much how things got resolved in the other conflicts - the Zoners 'surrendered' to us, gave in to our demands publicly, and in private continued with business as usual, maintaining their alliance with the Order in secret while publicly going, nope, not our friends, we don't like them (hey, deliveries around back, where the Core guys can't see them, okay).
What I find ironic and amusing is that I'm supporting the Order here - and in RP, they're our worst human enemies. The reason I'm doing so is simple - I'm quite able to keep my characters apart from the players. I sincerely doubt that you can.
And Karlotta - just stay out of this, m'kay? We know you like to play the game, and I'm not the one that banned you - hell, I supported you and argued politely with you many a time.
RE: ZA: End war talk - Zelot - 09-02-2013
Where has it been established through player lore or game lore that Zoners must give in to everyone? Where is it that Zoners must automatically bend over for every other group? In fact, the fact that they keep getting pewed by people is actually evidence that in game lore says they should go against the wishes of others. If they didnt they wouldnt keep getting shot. No?
RE: ZA: End war talk - Daedric - 09-02-2013
Ironic you should say that 'lot. You were one of the vocal ones claiming Zoners shouldn't resist the Corsairs many a time. Claiming the 'Croners and others weren't Zoners when they decided to fight back against your faction.
Guess you change your winds when it suits you, in order to agitate those you don't like.
Agmen isn't telling them to bend over. He is telling them to act like Zoners. Say one thing, do another.
RE: ZA: End war talk - Crackpunch - 09-02-2013
(09-02-2013, 03:39 AM)Zelot Wrote: Where has it been established through player lore or game lore that Zoners must give in to everyone? Where is it that Zoners must automatically bend over for every other group? In fact, the fact that they keep getting pewed by people is actually evidence that in game lore says they should go against the wishes of others. If they didnt they wouldnt keep getting shot. No?
Here it is established that you don't have enough information to comment.
Again.
RE: ZA: End war talk - Zoner-Trader - 09-02-2013
Well iv pretty much read it all, the long winded arguments about what we should and shouldnt have done.
Im clearly sick of mis-information...everyone assumes this all started once again with remains.
This isnt the case, the Order/Phoenix had a bee in their bonnet about the extension we built(Lividia) what umm in the beginning of 2012. At first they wernt aware of it, the only discussion we had was with TAZ and OSI.
Order fleet turns up after i return earlier this year along with Phoenix and demands it is shut down(after i read posts regarding an agreement that was made by Mow with Phoenix...i guess they had a right to ask for ZA to fulfill their promise). They threaten and we hold a quick meeting to discuss. In the end we decided it should go, simply to appease the Order and the fact it had become meerly a storage unit and nothing more.
At that time we had Sanctuary, Kappa(lvl2 at the time) and Gaurd station(daves personal pob).
What annoyed us was the fact that Phoenix had argued about having a POB near Lividia would cause problems, the only reason why Mow agreed to their request...then what happens Phoenix shove a POB on top of Lividia...ok well i guess it doesnt stick in our throats about that or would it????
Ok well things are going well now....we develop Kappa station into a weapons platform and the Nomads realise they cant take the quick route. So now the Nomads head through Gamma and start pestering our ships in theta and 74. Where is Phoenix in all this when we ask for help??? Sitting around in zeta or above Lividia doing nothing but saying its none of our buisness about Nomads.
Ok another thing to swallow i guess....so up goes Comms station...nothing said till it reaches lvl 3 and has a load of turrets.
So all hell breaks loose because the poor nomads cant pester us anymore....and yes Order arrive and start demanding...
What i have forgotten to mention through all this is all the verbal we get from both Phoenix and Order...both personal and ingame...i guess thats fine their official they can speak to people any way they want????
So really the next thing they use is a excuse which was resolved very quickly, Dave had nomad weapons on his station for sale but not remains(they were being purchased not sold) so he hands over the nomad weapons to the order to avert another conflict.
Then the other demands start flowing, you will hand over the stations, you will get rid of the weapons platforms etc etc ....
So i guess we couldnt take anymore of the nonesense and like any people we sharpened our blades...got the weapons platforms ready..
What you see as cowardice isnt, the failure by the Order and its many allies to siege us for what 10-12 days shows their determination but failure...let me explain, at first we will all happy to go out pewing for the first few days. This then esclated to more unknowns joining the fray, from every part of sirius to do Zoner bashing.
So i said enough is enough, we dont go out there fighting when were outnumbered. This annoyed the Order etc calling us cowards.
Nope what i planned was simple, hit and runs which proved to work on the AFK siegers, distraction and resupply.
Also the fact we had cargo ships none-tag helping us, makes no diff...i loved that complaint..well if a nation is at war they will use any means and all means to resupply.
Ok well next Role Play, we have tried but our first major roleplay with Order was a joke, how can you rp with anyone if they ignore you or just are plainly rude?
So can we just say when we do have calm then we can rp, but not with guns to our heads....let me explain in war apart from WW1 at christmas in the trench's. When troops are fighting each other, do they decide lets have a nice chat before we kill each other??? Simply this wouldnt happen and why wouldnt it? Because while your trying to chat as in a number of cases, they call their buddies and they start shooting before you could even get your trousers up after youve been well and truly shafted.
Yes so "Were at WAR no RP" is correct...situation is this, people have got this idea war is meant to be fair...we have more ships we win...nope....we control the systems we win...nope..we have more skype friends than you, we win...nope...we have more allies than you ingame, we win....nope...we have destroyed your bases, we win....yes!
The rp that ZA have is revolved around our bases, our homes...like any nation destroy them and you gain a small victory till next time *chuckle*
So this argument that everyone is saying about who is wrong, what we should have done but didnt..make no sense!
If you wernt ZA then how do you know how we felt? Did you ask us? NOPE!!!!
RE: ZA: End war talk - Caconym - 09-02-2013
Dude, you are forgetting something... The whole time what you did was a system LOCKDOWN; you blocked off one of the Omicrons with the most traffic, and then you are surprised you are under attack? My, oh my...
EDIT: And you keep talking about O-74 being "your" home system. Ok, maybe you do come from here, but YOU DO NOT OWN IT; you do not, technically, have the rights to shut it down and claim it as yours; take this into consideration before causing another lockdown please...
RE: ZA: End war talk - sindroms - 09-02-2013
Quote:Character background: Robert was born on Freeport 9 where he lived with his parents. When he was 9, his father had an encounter with a nomad that.... talked to him. 1 week later, the Order came and kidnapped his father. They never heard from him again. From that day on, Robert hated the Order for what they did.
4) Why do you want to join the ZA?: Because the ZA are the only ones who stand up the the Order, and are the only ones who can stop the Order from taking over the Omicrons.
Quote:Because the ZA are the only ones who stand up the the Order, and are the only ones who can stop the Order from taking over the Omicrons.
Quote:stop the Order from taking over the Omicrons
Guys, what the hell am I reading here....
RE: ZA: End war talk - Lonely_Ghost - 09-02-2013
(09-02-2013, 09:38 AM)sindroms Wrote: Guys, what the hell am I reading here....
The true story of the Order! Watch out Spazy! Now, when you saw the real face of the Order, you aren't safe anymore. So you need to keep your eye on sky, who knows may be they already sending Osiris after you.
Wait... I also have read this.... OMG, I see Geb in sky over my house. Goodbue guys!
Quote:So really the next thing they use is a excuse which was resolved very quickly, Dave had nomad weapons on his station for sale but not remains(they were being purchased not sold) so he hands over the nomad weapons to the order to avert another conflict.
Guys... I bought Nomad weapons for my BHG Core Manta from your base. I dunno, how many people also did it, however, it's probably enough only one Manta, to get Nom-Nom guns from you, to make the Order very angry on you.
RE: ZA: End war talk - Sabru - 09-02-2013
(09-02-2013, 09:38 AM)sindroms Wrote:* Sabru shrugsQuote:Character background: Robert was born on Freeport 9 where he lived with his parents. When he was 9, his father had an encounter with a nomad that.... talked to him. 1 week later, the Order came and kidnapped his father. They never heard from him again. From that day on, Robert hated the Order for what they did.
4) Why do you want to join the ZA?: Because the ZA are the only ones who stand up the the Order, and are the only ones who can stop the Order from taking over the Omicrons.
Quote:Because the ZA are the only ones who stand up the the Order, and are the only ones who can stop the Order from taking over the Omicrons.
Quote:stop the Order from taking over the Omicrons
Guys, what the hell am I reading here....
noobs?
trolls?
ZA creating fake recruits?