RE: LPI Feedback - Reid - 11-14-2016
Except the next best sellpoint for anything illegal is about 40K behind Manhattan. It's not that big of a deal you guys make it out to be. My smugglers go straight to Rochester anyways just to avoid me being caught and getting FR5'd.
Remember, there's risk to flying straight at the capital planet with thousands of tonnes of drugs on board.
RE: LPI Feedback - Laura C. - 11-14-2016
(11-14-2016, 05:47 PM)Reid Wrote: (11-14-2016, 11:18 AM)Laura C. Wrote: I want to ask why you guys recently started FR5ing smugglers even in situations when it´s their first documented violation and on top of that is based on third party evidence without any lawful even having interaction with some of these players ingame (and I am not mentioning incredibly short times given to response on fining notice in some cases).
This attitude is wrong and detrimental. You are killing source of activity not only for yourself, but for all police factions and lawfuls in general. Do you really want to kill smuggling as ingame activity? Considering that chasing smugglers is one of the main things that makes police factions appealing, it is really worrying. FR5 should be last resort for serious troublemakers, not your first choice.
As a police faction player myself and former long-term RFP| leader, I seriously want to ask you to reconsider this policy.
LPI has been doing this for years, FR5ing at the first offence of smugglers. Why is it suddenly a problem? If somebody is caught bringing in extremely large amounts of drugs and illegal shiny rocks, you would expect the cops to be like "ok you're a bad guy you can't come here anymore". And it's a more effective tactic than years of countless "pay this fine" threads that everybody ignores
note: i do not represent the views or policies of lpi or their leadership, it's my personal opinion and is not meant to be an official lpi response I thought (and hoped) that this attitude was left in the past when server had 150+ stable population and police factions could "afford" to be harsh. RFP is not using FR5s for smugglers for years and same applies for BPA as far as I noticed. LPI has the luxury of most active house because it is starting location, but those who play in less populated houses already reached point when they -have to- think about their attitude against their activity sources.
So like Achille said, while inRP the point of police is to stop all criminal activity including smuggling, ooRPly our point is exactly opposite - to keep it alive and coming, actually even to promote it. Otherwise you sooner or later face situation when you spend hours ingame on the patrols and you encounter almost no smugglers. Sooner or later people gets bored and stop playing
To put is simple - if you FR5 every smuggler after they are first caught, what will be player´s reaction? Especially when they are not even caught by lawfuls, but just silently scanned and screenshoted by some passing ship? Most of them will chose one of these:
a) I need to avoid as many players as possible (and in case of being FR5 also avoid stationary battleships and docking rings weaponry near lanes which can bite badly). Lets fly only through jumpholes and under/above plane so no one will see me.
Result for lawfuls: less interactions and less chases.
b) Smuggling sucks. Let´s rather do ore trading, it makes more money anyway.
Result for lawfuls: less interactions and less chases.
How is this good solution? You should not force -players- to have "I better do lawful trading" mindset.
RE: LPI Feedback - Skorak - 11-14-2016
Lol this will be my only response here.
People know I think little of forum feedback.
I fr5 people who ignore lpi people with lpi.
As you see everyone I commed who replied received a fine or offered another way of getting out of it.
RE: LPI Feedback - Reid - 11-14-2016
(11-14-2016, 06:30 PM)Laura C. Wrote: a) I need to avoid as many players as possible (and in case of being FR5 also avoid stationary battleships and docking rings weaponry near lanes which can bite badly). Lets fly only through jumpholes and under/above plane so no one will see me.
Result for lawfuls: less interactions and less chases.
You are actively breaking the law. Smuggling is pretty much a felony. You do not want to be caught because your cargo, paycheck, and reputation are on the line. If you get caught smuggling, then you're bad at it.
that being said i take lanes and gates because my smuggling ships are already hostile to house police. Like I said earlier, take it to Rochester. It's almost as good as Manhattan with less risk and right there next to it. And that's implying that people trying to stop smugglers don't sit at jumpholes, which they do. Trust me, they do.
RE: LPI Feedback - Officially_that_Guy - 11-18-2016
Howdy!
So I just "ran from an inspection" I was never halted for. I was parked at Westpoint and then started to move as there was some "inspecting" yada yada. I entered the lane, then jumped to PA where I stopped immediately when the "officer AI" LPI-Vigilant sent a system-wide halt order. I was at Philadelphia station by that time - a Miner, named MSV-Kolto in a Starburst freighter, shot the lane and ran off. Eventually LPI-Vigilant caught up and immediately charged me with the disrupted lane and fleeing from an inspection he never called me to stop for. When I made my case and TOLD him about the miner he decided to additionally charge me with section 1 article V.
Seriously, IF you're gonna play an infallible AI, at least be correct in the procedures. This was just junker harrassment. He even admitted he never called to halt me at westpoint. I have made screenshots, but I hope the text logs will suffice (uploading shots takes ages for me).
You guys need to keep those phony charges in check. You represent the law, not some military dictatorship. In dubio pro reo - you need proof of the violation. I pointed your officer towards the actual culprit and he just charged me anyways.
(Conversation with the zoner continued via PM, and are marked green)
[18.11.2016 15:26:14] Zoner.01: Junker, would ya like a trip with me to Tau 29 ? See new places... *winks*
[18.11.2016 15:26:31] Zoner.01: I think the Police and Navy can take care of those buggers in Texas.
[18.11.2016 15:26:36] Recycler[J]: Uuuuh I love physics. Especially the rule that says "stationary objects prefer remaining so"
[18.11.2016 15:26:45] Recycler[J]: So thanks, but I'll stay here
[18.11.2016 15:26:47] Discovery Freelancer is a role-playing server. All attacks must be the result of some form of role play. Shouting "Engaging" or "Halt" is not sufficient.
[18.11.2016 15:26:57] Zoner.01: Ok then. Be well...
[18.11.2016 15:27:02] Recycler[J]: Safe skies.
[18.11.2016 15:27:05] LPI-Vigilant: ::Sentinel:Engaging:: Beginning Headlight Inspection
[18.11.2016 15:27:19] Recycler[J]: *rolls up window blinds*
[18.11.2016 15:27:31] Zoner.01: Thankye lad. I will come back soon to Pennsy.
[18.11.2016 15:28:17] LPI-Vigilant: ::Sentinel:; You are resisting an inspection
[18.11.2016 15:28:25] Recycler[J]: I aint resisting jack.
[18.11.2016 15:28:34] Zoner.01: I need a Freelancer bribe and it seems FP6 can give it *mumbles*
[18.11.2016 15:28:36] Recycler[J]: Unless you order me to halt I am not obliged to do so.
>>>This is where I jumped to PA
[18.11.2016 15:29:19] Zoner.01: Mehh... I dont like those 'sentinel robots' much
[18.11.2016 15:29:34] Recycler[J]: Neither. He fails to order me to halt, but says I am resisting an inspection...
[18.11.2016 15:29:36] LPI-Vigilant: ::Sentinel:: You are formally ordered to halt.
[18.11.2016 15:30:05] Zoner.01: They tend to have some *faulty processing*
[18.11.2016 15:30:22] Recycler[J]: Well, then. Make it quick. I have things to do.
[18.11.2016 15:30:26] LPI-Vigilant: ::Sentinel:: Disrupting the Trade Lane is a violation.
[18.11.2016 15:30:31] Recycler[J]: Just that it was not me.
[18.11.2016 15:30:41] Recycler[J]: So dont tell that to me. I know the law.
[18.11.2016 15:30:42] LPI-Vigilant: ::Sentinel:: By Liberty Law
[18.11.2016 15:30:55] LPI-Vigilant: ::Sentinel:: Any individual found within Six Kilometers of a disabled trade lane
[18.11.2016 15:31:03] LPI-Vigilant: ::Sentinel:: Is to be interrogated on the disruption there of
[18.11.2016 15:31:12] Recycler[J]: So the fact that the guy who ACTUALLY shot the lane ran off excuses him, aye?
[18.11.2016 15:31:43] LPI-Vigilant: ::Sentinel:: You did both willingly and knowingly move away from an inspection. In the matter of the disrupted trade lane, you
[18.11.2016 15:31:47] Recycler[J]: MSV-Kolto. Miner ID, starburst freighter. Fired a salvo of 4 into the lane as you ordered me to halt.
[18.11.2016 15:31:52] LPI-Vigilant: ::Sentinel:: Are thereby the primary subject
[18.11.2016 15:32:06] LPI-Vigilant: ::Sentinel:: Do you have proof, IE: Guncam or other footage?
[18.11.2016 15:32:06] Recycler[J]: You are just following bigot procedure and suspect the junker.
[18.11.2016 15:32:21] LPI-Vigilant: ::Sentinel:: Sir, this unit is incapable of bigotry.
[18.11.2016 15:32:22] Recycler[J]: I do not. But you have no proof against me, either. And I say it was not me.
[18.11.2016 15:32:43] Recycler[J]: Howdy, Lyons. You guys need to check your drones.
[18.11.2016 15:32:52] Recycler[J]: I think Sader messed with their procedures.
[18.11.2016 15:32:53] LPI-Vigilant: ::Sentinel:: As you were the closest individual to the disrupted trade lane, this serves as evidence
[18.11.2016 15:32:57] LPI-Patricia.Lyons[C]: She's working perfectly.
[18.11.2016 15:33:03] Recycler[J]: It is NOT evidence. I told you the culprit.
[18.11.2016 15:33:13] Recycler[J]: You ordered me to halt - you see the flaw in that argument?
[18.11.2016 15:33:19] LPI-Vigilant: ::Sentinel: And you failed to show proof of it, and have displayed contempt toward law enforcement units.
[18.11.2016 15:33:27] Recycler[J]: Contempt how?
[18.11.2016 15:33:40] LPI-Vigilant: ::Sentinel:: In Both Tone, Action and Speech.
[18.11.2016 15:33:48] Recycler[J]: Right. Action?
[18.11.2016 15:33:53] LPI-Vigilant: ::Sentinel:: First Incident: Moving away from an active inspection.
[18.11.2016 15:34:07] Recycler[J]: Actually you have not once ordered me to halt, so I was not obliged to do so.
[18.11.2016 15:34:13] Recycler[J]: I halted as soon as you did.
[18.11.2016 15:34:16] LPI-Vigilant: ::Sentinel:: Your vessel was halted.
[18.11.2016 15:34:20] Recycler[J]: Which is RIGHT. HERE.
[18.11.2016 15:34:30] LPI-Vigilant: ::Sentinel:: By West Point academy.
[18.11.2016 15:34:45] Recycler[J]: Yeah, the fact I was not moving does not free you of having to tell me to remain so.
[18.11.2016 15:34:49] LPI-Vigilant: ::Sentinel:: Not only did you willingly move away fro the inspection,
[18.11.2016 15:35:09] LPI-Vigilant: ::Sentinel:: But forcing this unit to pursue you into the Pennsylvania system, has been a thorough waste of Department time
[18.11.2016 15:35:23] LPI-Vigilant: ::Sentinel:: Adding to that, your vessel does not comply with standard liberty headlight safety regulations
[18.11.2016 15:35:25] Recycler[J]: Well, this could have been avoided had you followed procedure.
[18.11.2016 15:35:30] Changing screen mode=full
[18.11.2016 15:35:52] LPI-Vigilant: ::Sentinel:: Coupled with your contemptful attitude toward proceedings, including your attempt to incite violence
[18.11.2016 15:36:10] LPI-Vigilant: ::Sentinel:: Leads to the Issue of following fine, by the articles of Liberty Law:
[18.11.2016 15:36:11] Recycler[J]: I have the liberty code of law right in front of me. I am in no violation of any part of it.
[18.11.2016 15:36:38] LPI-Vigilant: ::Sentinel:: The fine is set at a preliminary of Two-Million Standard Sirian Credits, failure to comply
[18.11.2016 15:36:48] LPI-Vigilant: ::Sentinel:: Will result in an arrest, with a bail set at five million.
[18.11.2016 15:37:08] Recycler[J]: Alright. I would like to bring this matter to the other officer, an uninvolved party and make my case, then.
[18.11.2016 15:37:37] Changing screen mode=windowed
[18.11.2016 15:37:39] LPI-Vigilant: ::Sentinel:: This is not a court of law, this is an ongoing incident. You may comply or you may face additional charges
[18.11.2016 15:37:55] Recycler[J]: Well, those charges are false.
[18.11.2016 15:37:56] LPI-Vigilant: ::Sentinel:: Do not waste the department's time, appeals may be made at a later date to review case files.
[18.11.2016 15:38:02] Changing screen mode=full
[18.11.2016 15:39:04] Recycler[J]: Unless you have proof of any violation I may have committed, be it scans or guncams, you cannot speak a verdict.
[18.11.2016 15:39:05] Changing screen mode=windowed
[18.11.2016 15:39:10] Recycler[J]: That is also part of your laws.
[18.11.2016 15:39:17] Recycler[J]: Thus - please proceed to provide evidence.
[18.11.2016 15:39:52] Recycler[J]: I have halted my ship as soon as i received the "halt" message in system coms.
[18.11.2016 15:40:00] LPI-Vigilant: ::Sentinel:: I present Section One, Article IV, Non Violent Crime
[18.11.2016 15:40:09] Recycler[J]: That is not proof.
[18.11.2016 15:40:11] LPI-Vigilant: ::Sentinel:: Causing a Public Disturbance as the primary charge.
[18.11.2016 15:40:25] Recycler[J]: That is the LAW you are quoting. Not proof.
[18.11.2016 15:40:26] LPI-Vigilant: ::Sentinel:: With additional misdeamenors
[18.11.2016 15:40:39] Recycler[J]: So, can you provide any proof? Guncams or other?
[18.11.2016 15:40:53] Recycler[J]: I have fully complied with your halt order.
[18.11.2016 15:41:05] LPI-Vigilant: ::Sentienl:: This is not a court of law.
[18.11.2016 15:41:12] Recycler[J]: You are still bound by the laws.
[18.11.2016 15:41:15] Recycler[J]: As am I.
[18.11.2016 15:41:24] LPI-Vigilant: ::Sentinel:: With your contemptful attitude toward proceedings, you are hereby additionally charged by Obstructing the Course
[18.11.2016 15:41:30] LPI-Vigilant: ::Sentinel:: Of Justice.
[18.11.2016 15:41:41] Recycler[J]: It is not contempt. I am reminding you of my rights as a Liberty citizen.
[18.11.2016 15:41:48] Recycler[J]: Since you are in violation of them
[18.11.2016 15:42:08] LPI-Vigilant: ::Sentinel:: And this unit has explained with exceeding patience your rights and their application to an ongoing situation
[18.11.2016 15:42:36] Recycler[J]: You have quoted a law you say I violated. You have not a single shred of proof, thus you are required to set me free.
[18.11.2016 15:42:47] Recycler[J]: If you deliver proof of these charges I will pay the fine.
[18.11.2016 15:42:49] LPI-Vigilant: ::Sentinel:: You may pay the heightened fine of Four-Million Standard Credits, or you may face arrest with limited appeals chae
[18.11.2016 15:43:04] LPI-Vigilant: //*Chance
[18.11.2016 15:43:14] LPI-Vigilant: ::Sentinel:: You will not be warned again.
[18.11.2016 15:43:31] Recycler[J]: Well - so can you list all my violations once more?
[18.11.2016 15:43:36] Recycler[J]: Which I have not commited.
[18.11.2016 15:43:41] Changing screen mode=full
[18.11.2016 15:43:58] Recycler[J]: I want to make sure I can file a complete report on this unjust treatment.
[18.11.2016 15:44:10] LPI-Vigilant: ::Sentien:: Section One, Articles IV and V
[18.11.2016 15:44:15] Changing screen mode=windowed
[18.11.2016 15:44:37] Recycler[J]: What subsection.
[18.11.2016 15:44:40] Recycler[J]: Thats kinda important.
[18.11.2016 15:45:18] LPI-Vigilant: ::Section:: Fleeing from an officer. Causing a Public Disturbance. Obstructing the Course of Justice.
[18.11.2016 15:45:23] Recycler[J]: I did not flee.
[18.11.2016 15:45:34] Recycler[J]: I cut my engines the second you told me to halt.
[18.11.2016 15:45:46] LPI-Vigilant: ::Sentinel:: You were in the middle of an inspction, and did both knowingly and willingly move and engage with the trade lane
[18.11.2016 15:45:57] LPI-Vigilant: ::Sentinel:: Followed by flight to another system, with an additional trade lane.
[18.11.2016 15:46:05] Recycler[J]: You did not call my shipname, nor did you tell me to halt then.
[18.11.2016 15:46:09] LPI-Vigilant: ::Sentinel:: Hogosha Vessel you will clear the area.
[18.11.2016 15:46:12] Recycler[J]: So I was legally permitted to move away.
[18.11.2016 15:46:24] [HA]-$|Myako.Arashi: Roger that.
[18.11.2016 15:46:29] Recycler[J]: Then i jumped to this system and you sent a broadcast of "halt"
[18.11.2016 15:46:31] Recycler[J]: So i did.
[18.11.2016 15:46:37] LPI-Vigilant: ::Sentinel:: You were the subject of a routine headlight check, and knowingly moved away.
[18.11.2016 15:46:52] Death: =CC=WitchBlade suffered a self-inflicted catastrophic decompression.
[18.11.2016 15:47:06] A player who was killed in a PvP fight is not allowed to re-engage using any of his/her characters within 2 hours.
[18.11.2016 15:47:06] Characters of a player who was killed in a PvP fight must not return into the same system for 2 hours. Check the server rules on the forums for the exceptions to this.
[18.11.2016 15:47:07] LPI-Vigilant: ::Sentinel:: You have been given multiple warnings, and continue to show contempt toward Law Enforcement Personnel.
[18.11.2016 15:47:10] Recycler[J]: You never called my ship or told me to halt. So how would I know you were checking MY ship?
[18.11.2016 15:47:26] Changing screen mode=full
[18.11.2016 15:47:36] Recycler[J]: Can you deny this fact?
[18.11.2016 15:47:41] LPI-Vigilant: ::Sentinel:: Sir. Do not attempt to ply this unti for a fool. This vessel was quite obvious inspecting yours, as it was c
[18.11.2016 15:47:47] LPI-Vigilant: ::Sentinel:: Circlng your ship.
[18.11.2016 15:47:54] Recycler[J]: It must be obvious to ME, not YOU.
[18.11.2016 15:47:57] Recycler[J]: And it was not.
[18.11.2016 15:48:11] LPI-Vigilant: ::Sentinel:: Sir I'm going to ask you to calm down
[18.11.2016 15:48:12] Recycler[J]: You could have been talking to that zoner for all I know.
[18.11.2016 15:48:16] Recycler[J]: I am very calm.
[18.11.2016 15:48:40] LPI-Vigilant: ::Sentinel:: Do not let your crime co-efficient rise any further, or Law Enforcement action will be mandatory.
[18.11.2016 15:48:56] Recycler[J]: Can you deny that you did NOT call my ship name?
[18.11.2016 15:48:57] LPI-Patricia.Lyons[C]: We don't want that.
[18.11.2016 15:49:16] LPI-Vigilant: ::Sentinel:: Affirmative, you vessel's desgination was not called.
[18.11.2016 15:49:33] Recycler[J]: So me moving was not breaking a halt order, correct?
[18.11.2016 15:49:42] Recycler[J]: At westpoint, specifically.
[18.11.2016 15:49:43] LPI-Vigilant: ::Sentinel:: However, You were within comprehendeable human standards to realize you were the subject of inspection
[18.11.2016 15:49:53] Recycler[J]: That is rather vague.
[18.11.2016 15:49:53] LPI-Vigilant: ::Sentinel:: If you wish to plead mental incompetence, thi sis your chance.
[18.11.2016 15:50:08] Recycler[J]: I will plead that I do not conform to your standards.
[18.11.2016 15:50:46] LPI-Vigilant: ::Sentinel:: Then you are additionally Charged with Article IV, Subsection 'Flying while Intoxicated, Under the Influence, or
[18.11.2016 15:50:53] LPI-Vigilant: otherwise disabled'
[18.11.2016 15:51:07] Recycler[J]: You are being very vague there for an AI.
[18.11.2016 15:51:15] LPI-Vigilant: ::Sentinel:: Please dock on station and cease all space flight activities. Emergency Medical Personnel will escort
[18.11.2016 15:51:18] Recycler[J]: What I said does not warrant that article.
[18.11.2016 15:51:23] LPI-Vigilant: ::Sentinel:: To an emergency care facility soon.
[18.11.2016 15:51:28] Recycler[J]: Fine then.
[18.11.2016 15:51:43] Recycler[J]: Scumbag faulty AI....
[18.11.2016 15:51:45] 2016-11-18 15:51:38 SMT Traffic control alert: Recycler[J] has requested to dock
[18.11.2016 15:52:06] Changing screen mode=windowed
[18.11.2016 15:52:50] Death: Blacky was put out of action by a hostile vessel.
RE: LPI Feedback - Catherine - 11-18-2016
(11-18-2016, 05:21 PM)Officially_that_Guy Wrote: Howdy!
So I just "ran from an inspection" I was never halted for.
I do not make it a habit to post in feedback related to me, but, I feel the need to speak up. You were, iRP Being exceedingly different, and trying to 'One Up' the android with laws. Having been programmed to 'clamp down' when someone tries to weasel out like that, the Android laid down additional charges against you. I will remind you, twice, you were given the opportunity to pay your fine, and appeal it later.
Additionally, you tried to argue law with a police officer, you should know that in real life, as in game, that's just stupid. In real life, you'd have gotten shot at worse, and arrested at best. Ingame, you refused to pay a fine and I could have shot you, but didn't. I don't know if this is based on real life personal beliefs but, you need to accept that in Discovery, Junkers have the shorter straw, as does anyone not within the police. You need to comply, for face the consequences.
This entire issued was caused by you refusing to stop so I could check your ship's headlights. Good Job, I hope it was worth it.
You didn't loose anything in this RP, and yet you're here complaining rather than handling things in an appropriate iRP manner. Yes, it was a junker discriminating inspection, however, that should be well and fine. It's even represented in the background story through infocards, Junkers get hassled, live with it and play your character.
You took the time to complain, no one forced you to do that. Either live with the character you made, or make a new one.
In other words: Shouting that you were upset, does not make you right.
RE: LPI Feedback - Emperor Tekagi - 11-18-2016
I just read everything and as neutral bystander who wasn't there I can only say: Get RP-slapped mate. Sorry but this is one way to LPI- RP? Corruption, abusing their power, etc.
I really can't see your problem except that you are mad about them playing less honorful cops.
But hey, just my opinion. I would have smiled myself about this sort of RP. If you really can't handle stuff like this happening irp as part of RP possibilities which cops have, avoid them. Avoid interactions.
Take this here as official statement and I really will die by a laughter.
RE: LPI Feedback - Officially_that_Guy - 11-18-2016
I am not blinded by rage with that post. I just remember getting hammered about 6 years ago for trying to play a crooked cop. So has that changed? Because the rules say "play according to your ID". That should include not trying to harrass innocents. And a few days back somebody got rulef*cked for not having witnessed an infraction and blowing up a junker.
RE: LPI Feedback - Emperor Tekagi - 11-18-2016
I would say that it changed only a bit, it just depends on how corrupt you play. Overdoing it until an extent where it is just bluntly breaking ID or other rules is overstepping the borders but I think the RP you saw there happened fully inside said borders. Maybe you should give such RP a try again after so many years and see yourself that it changed!
RE: LPI Feedback - Officially_that_Guy - 11-18-2016
You are just trying to get me hammered again, eh?  Well, I am awaiting the response of that guy. He failed to follow basic LPI, so in theory I could report that to the official faction. Dictatorship i tell ya.
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