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+--- Thread: The future of mining? (/showthread.php?tid=55945)
The future of mining? - Backo - 03-02-2011
' Wrote:There were many mining systems besides Dublin. This destroyed them all, in one foul swoop. Nerf Dublin, to the ground baby! Hell, why not destroy Dublin with a system wide Atomic Bomb? However, please do not destroy an entire RP system with many factions around it, for the actions of people inside ONE system.
For Sirius's sake man. Have you no decency?
Atleast we're not seeing indie BMM miners in Tau-23, right? Minor victories!
The future of mining? - Papar - 03-02-2011
I think that this is a bad move. lolwutters will ALWAYS exists. Nothing can be happened about it. Plus since this is a online game, every sort of people can play it. Friendly and unfriendly. Again, nothing can be done about it.
The future of mining? - Atreides2 - 03-02-2011
I am a CR player in the tau , a lawful whos playing on a lawfull side for the fun. The problem with the mining mode was that was bringing to Tau 23 alot of new players and a lot of pirates and the situation escalated.
I suggest to turn the mode back on but create a few more spots in sirius , spread it out , to have the same profit BUT not all to go in only one system. There are a lot of empty systems.
There are alot of mining factions and shipping. Imagine that if this is played out corectly , there won't be only IMG and BMM miners , you can met a bit more Kruger , Daumman , DSE , GMS . Shipping factions like repex , alg more of the civilian side.
The future of mining? - Zukertort - 03-02-2011
Cannon
This move of yours makes me sad - even though I understand the need for doing something.
I think, that you have lost sight of the larger perspektive here: everytime you nerf something - or return the game to an earlier version (as in before the mining mod) you will lose a part of the most vital asset, that games has: its ability to attract new players - and make them stay long enough to keep the game alive.
Also this move of yours will surely turn away many of the players, that you really want to keep - the experienced ones, that are the backbone of all factions and player groups - both official and unofficial ones.
So I suggest that you turn mining on - VERY FAST - without any nerfing - but perhaps with new miningopportunities and new types of ores that will spread players into more systems - perhaps more uncontested ones. Too much mining takes place in conflict areas.
In short: the game must always move forward - never backwards. No matter the reason.
RP is an add-on to this game, that will never work perfectly. I believe, that RP-issues always will be there - for several reasons - one is, that it is something, that has to be learnt - partially through "try and error".
Another reason, IMO, is the "built-in" balances in the game, f.x. there is no real "controlled space" in the game - everybody can pretty much go everywhere - unless the rules states otherwise. This has also implications for the problems, that you want to address. F.x. I have always felt it is far - FAR - too easy to be a pirate. They travel freely though jumpgates, can sit on hostile stations or near tradelanes without being in any real danger.
If it was much - MUCH - harder to enter and move around in hostile space - for both lawfulls and unlawfulls, then many of the RP problems would not be there.
But then again: a "pirate" nerf is not the solution. Enlist more admins if needed, improve their tools - but move forward, never nerf at this stage of the games life.
Respectfully yours
Zukertort
The future of mining? - Cond0r - 03-02-2011
' Wrote:Also this move of yours will surely turn away many of the players, that you really want to keep - the experienced onesAnd you know this how? Please speak in your own name, dont speak for others if you dont really know what they want.
These "experienced" players you're talking about have played the mod even before mining was implemented, they played after it was implemented, and if they want to they will play now that it has been turned off again.
Doing a thing like this cant chase someone away from a whole mod. But thats just me. And tbh you just sound like someone who was powermining all the time, so now you're angry, understandably.
If it does get turned on again, nerfing it or buffing trading would probably be the best bet.
The future of mining? - Catbert - 03-02-2011
Well, while looking through this thread I noticed one potentially good solution...
' Wrote:As I've said before:This proposal seems interesting. However, I'd say that dropping ore prices by 55-60% would be enough. Also, double the bonuses of the mining mod. This may help with the following:
- Drop ore prices by 75%
- <strike>Quadruple</strike> Triple the bonuses MiningMod applies to ore drops.
Result: ~20% profit drop in mining, ore becomes equally valuable to the standard commodity which makes piracy a lot simpler, mining requires more transportation then actual shooting rock.
Subresult: Less hanging around the mining fields, more moving around Sirius. Activity disperses. Mining factions remain a viable option.
I guess this just leaves ferrying scientists in ore tankers and trains around as moneymaker? [/Annoyed]
1) Solo-Hegemon mining becomes nerfed enough (may also nerf Hegemon's speed/agility and cargo hold, but buff armor, to make it more like a mobile mining base; who knows, maybe depriving the Hegemon of thruster in the long run will do the trick).
2) As for those, who switch to their traders and grab their own ore... Maybe buffing trading (even by 10%) will make them forget about mining. So, we'll get the powertraders (since we're going to get them anyway), but we will get rid of some powerminers.
I'll use BMM as an example (just the first mining faction that came to mind). I was thinking of adding more than 1 ore-buying point (e.g., let the BMM drop ore somewhere in Bretonia for a small sum like 800 per unit), but now player factions can arrange that without admin interference (since the Barge was introduced). I imagine it as something like: BMM sign a contract with Bowex, deliver the ore to Bowex barge, get their share. Then Bowex traders get the cargo from the barge and deliver it to the destination. The profits would not be as high as they used to be, but people will have RP and factions will actually cooperate.
What we need is to find the balance between time and profit: hauling ore must be profitable enough for Bowex (so that they prefer hauling to simple trading), but solo mining+selling ore must be worse in terms of time/money balance than simple trading.
Some other thoughts about mining.
Add more mining fields with various ore-dropping points. I'd really like to see at least one mining field in Liberty (in Pennsylvania, Colorado, or somewhere else), and at least one field somewhere around Kusari (Sigmas, GMG and gas mining).
I don't know whether adding real gas mining is possible without making a patch. My point on this matter is: why invent something new when you can just make some asteroid fields drop "Gas" commodity? I am aware that it would not look true-to-life, but there're many things on Discovery that look like they'd look in RL (e.g., human guns on nomad morphs, etc). This may be the temporary solution, but it's something that may be done, sort of a compromise.
By adding mining fields for GMG and DSE we will:
1) Give activity boost to DSE and GMG.
2) Provide Kusari with some activity (by putting dropping points there, at least the dropping point for DSE-mined commodity).
General result: mining nerfed enough, trading buffed a bit, powerminers switch to powertrading (though it doesn't mean they'll spread all over Sirius; still we'll get powertraders anyway, without mining mod or with the mining mod nerfed enough), mining provides more RP for both trading and mining factions.
P.S.: voted "nerf by 50%", the closest option to this solution.
The future of mining? - Vexykin - 03-02-2011
Turn it back on...
It's not the solution connan :S
The future of mining? - Boss - 03-02-2011
' Wrote:The only problem with the mining mod is that it's inherently imbalanced.
Can't just set the prices to have some variety because the trade routes are currently static. I'd reiterate what someone else said somewhere.
Let people help Xoria out. Give us a template and an FLHook plugin and we'll create trade routes to plug in. They could be dynamic, based on in-game RP. Let's say the GMG and Liberty have a falling-out? Suddenly, imports of H-Fuel are gone. We create a few new routes to reflect Liberty looking for trade partners, but the cost will go up on both ends. After amends are made, the routes are retired. Or kept, depending on how relations with the new partners are.
Something to think about.
Posted this last night and it was completely ignored/buried.
The future of mining? - Evan_ - 03-02-2011
My two cents:
Mining is good. It brings people together. I recon in the past it was planned to be a high-yielding group activity. Yet because everyone could just buy a Hegemon and do it solo, everyone did. So my suggestion:
Turn off Hegemon's mining bonus.
That way, all the mining would be done in snubcrafts, so if someone wants to make a profit, he needs to find sellers / buyers. Believe me, places like Dublin syschat would be filled with solid miner / hauler roleplay.
The future of mining? - Optimus-Prime - 03-02-2011
' Wrote:1. Hegemon price is tooooo low (22 mill). Make it 50 mill.
2. Nerf gold and niobium selling price to max 8k per unit
3. Buff some commodities and there will be more traders
+100