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+--- Thread: House, Military, Police and Intelligence IDs (/showthread.php?tid=129217)
RE: House, Military, Police and Intelligence IDs - Sabru - 05-12-2015
(05-12-2015, 01:16 PM)Snoopy Wrote: There are many treaties that surround the BAF allowing them to attack unwanted people in Omega 3 and Cortez. The RM and LN also have the same responsibilities
http://discoverygc.com/forums/showthread.php?tid=50276
I do think some of those treaties should be updated due to changes with various factions, controlling stakes etc etc.
Anyway,
the reasons why he changes were done: good. trying to solve the problem.
The change itself: bad.
Blodo's suggestion (or some proper variation thereof): gets my vote.
everything else i'd want to say has already been covered by someone or another.
RE: House, Military, Police and Intelligence IDs - Fluffyball - 05-12-2015
What exactly is "can defend (...) bases (...)"? I'm just curious what is exact definition of "base defending".
Also, for inRP treaties, you are forgetting that RP<server rules. Such things like Rheinland-Kusari (Honshu-Stuttgart law enforcement), Tau Decree and Curacao Treaty are now void.
RE: House, Military, Police and Intelligence IDs - Thyrzul - 05-12-2015
(05-12-2015, 05:45 PM)Fluffyball Wrote: Also, for inRP treaties, you are forgetting that RP<server rules. Such things like Rheinland-Kusari (Honshu-Stuttgart law enforcement), Tau Decree and Curacao Treaty are now void.
That's pretty much one of the main points of those who do not like this change. It is understandable that you do not give a flying F about massive amount of roleplay of others estabilished through lot of energy, time and effort going down the toilet because of an admin decision, as you yourself lost literally nothing in the process, but you should/could also be a bit more considerate than that towards those who did just lose the fruit of their work. I guess you would agitate like mad as well should anybody just decide to wipe out roleplay you spent your free time on and care about much.
RE: House, Military, Police and Intelligence IDs - Fluffyball - 05-12-2015
That's why I have stated (with some other users I don't want to point out by name) that some devs and some admins don't give a damn about the players' roleplay.
RE: House, Military, Police and Intelligence IDs - TheProphet - 05-12-2015
(05-12-2015, 07:03 PM)Fluffyball Wrote: That's why I have stated (with some other users I don't want to point out by name) that devs and admins don't give a damn about the players' roleplay.
Actually don't throw everyone in the same boat, a few devs popped in this thread to denounce the changes. As jammi said previously, it just shows the insane levels of disconnect between the two groups.
I'm hoping the admins actually go through the thread and read the constructive criticism they requested. There is whinging, yes, but the entire first part of the thread shouldn't be brushed away because of that. There are some good arguments in there.
RE: House, Military, Police and Intelligence IDs - Garrett Jax - 05-13-2015
The Admins are currently voting on Blodo's proposal. I appreciate the feedback that many of you gave concerning it. Those that expressed reasons why this new ID revision didn't work for them, or how it might effect factions are helpful to us. Looking back, we should have talked to some of those faction leaders that were most effected by this change ahead of time. Lesson learned, I guess.
The reason behind the changes was the fact that House Govt's have too strong an influence over quasi-lawful factions. Corporate piracy is essentially stopped in its tracks, because all a corporation has to do is report the offender to the House Government and the quasi lawful faction faces 500 million credit fines, demands for access to their POB's, and even in extreme cases, FR5's. The House Governments effectively stop quasi lawful factions from being quasi lawful. The faction is forced into lawfulness because they can't afford to get caught doing illegal activities. Inside house space, this might be reasonable. Strict enforcement of house laws outside house space is too much power for House military and police factions to wield. This is not balanced, and it has to stop. This was the reasoning behind the change, and although it would have proved effective, admittedly there are less extreme ways to go about it. We are voting on that now.
Blodo's proposal seems promising as it addresses some of our concerns while being far less disruptive than the ID revision set forth in the OP. The Community may expect an announcement in 6 days or so.
On a personal note, I have been extremely disappointed in some of the posts here. The idea for the ID changes did not originate from the Admins. It was brought forth in a Player Request by a member of the Community itself, who is a faction leader. Not surprisingly, this faction leader didn't bother defending the Admins when people accused us of having a "disconnect with the players". If I were him, I wouldn't want to face the mob mentality so prevalent in this thread either.
Additionally, I have been accused of a couple things that have been quite hurtful and totally false. I did not shoot the Congress POB while on my Admin ship the other day, when Liberty Lawfuls destroyed it. I was in PR to make sure all players were abiding by the rules. Getting accused of that was bad enough, but then to have the ignorant accusation of rushing out a set of rules to prevent Congress from having to face RP consequences would have been hilarious if it weren't believed so strongly by some. To get accused of hurting Congress and then trying to help them within two days time is laughable. And the day I have to PM players Skype chats or Admin discussions and dates to prove my innocence is the day I hang up my Green jacket and go home. You can forget that right now.
With regards the accusation that Admins don't give a...whatever, about player's RP, that is an unfair statement. We look at things with a broader view than most members of the Community. Where one player is concerned with his self interests, maybe covering the factions that they are personally involved with, we look at the bigger picture and consider the health of all factions as a whole. If we make a decision, it is with the overall view that the server as a whole will benefit as a result. That is not saying that we are always right. We are not. We do try with the best of intentions, and if it's discovered that a decision has proved harmful to the server, we reverse or change it. I will say that a player's RP is not greater than the server. RP is not greater than the rules. You say that players have spent hours upon hours of effort on your RP. So what. POB owners have spent countless hours of RP on their bases, but that doesn't stop many of you from wiping it out the moment it becomes vulnerable. Remember all the bases that we dropped to Core one in a recent sanction? Not one of them survived the day. Where was your love and respect for those player's RP then? Why should the Admins view your RP any differently? We do what we feel is in the best interest of the server, and as painful as it might be for you to hear, your RP takes a backseat to that.
Bottom line, I learned a lot from this incident. I learned to not listen to just one or two players that come forward with what appears to be a sensible request, but to communicate further with as many faction leaders as possible who might be affected by potential changes to the server and at least get their feedback. I learned that there are some members of the Community here that are not worth communicating with at all. And lastly, I learned who has my back when times are tough, and which people are nowhere to be seen during those times. As far as I'm concerned, this thread is over for me. The Admins will consider Blodo's revision idea and we will notify you in a future announcement.
Have a wonderful day.
RE: House, Military, Police and Intelligence IDs - Jayce - 05-13-2015
We love you Bob!
RE: House, Military, Police and Intelligence IDs - Snoozzzer - 05-13-2015
(05-13-2015, 12:47 AM)Garrett Jax Wrote: *wall of text*
I read all that, and maybe it's because I'm in one of the factions involved, maybe because I've been away from disco for long enough to sever many of the emotional ties I had, but what you said made sense to me. About the hate, the skype rumours, the intended reasons for the change being spelled flat out, and I'd like to say
Thanks for sharing that man
also, here's a (hug) and a (beer)
RE: House, Military, Police and Intelligence IDs - Miaou - 05-13-2015
(05-13-2015, 12:47 AM)Garrett Jax Wrote: Remember all the bases that we dropped to Core one in a recent sanction? Not one of them survived the day. Where was your love and respect for those player's RP then? Why should the Admins view your RP any differently?
Uh. The difference is the admins hit those bases for abusing an exploit.
Regardless, I understand where you come from. Thanks for being open with the player base when you don't have to. I'm glad the admins are (maybe) finding out that listening to one person whine doesn't mean it's the view of the entire community. I know a lot of people jumped for the neck when this change went up due to it's timing and how it seemed to be an impassible stone. Perhaps next time give a bit more background as to why changes are being made if you really care about not being accused of things. When this was posted, it was a "This is the changes that will be happening." I hate to suggest it, but perhaps more reasoning as to why the changes were put forward would help clear up a lot of the complaints.
RE: House, Military, Police and Intelligence IDs - zslayern - 05-13-2015
Quote:Also, for inRP treaties, you are forgetting that RP<server rules. Such things like Rheinland-Kusari (Honshu-Stuttgart law enforcement), Tau Decree and Curacao Treaty are now void.
Quote:There are many treaties that surround the BAF allowing them to attack unwanted people in Omega 3 and Cortez. The RM and LN also have the same responsibilities
Quote:I do think some of those treaties should be updated due to changes with various factions, controlling stakes etc etc.
Quote:Wow. So from now on BAF cannot attack any ship in Omega 3 but Gallic? the hell? Pirates will rip down Omega 3. Atleast i'm patroling Omega 3 with zoner ship. And as far as i understand... Sinse Bretoninan ships cannot attack any ship in Omega 3 then there is no restrictions for other faction cap ships in that area?
And also. Even if Police and Military cannot attack anyone in Omega 3, Privateers can, BHG can, House organizations can.
Quote:God help us all Big Grin. Pirates will be all over Omega 3 now. And also Omega 7. + Omega 11 isn't house space. God, All Omegas will be taken down. Maybe admins should let BHG Core ships allow to enter Omegas now? I cannot protect everyone in Omega 3. Only near Freeport and Palmer, but nowere else. As i'm zoner, not some BHG or someone else.
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