"Mary Sue" character stigma - problems with RPing bad guys - Printable Version +- Discovery Gaming Community (https://discoverygc.com/forums) +-- Forum: Discovery General (https://discoverygc.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?fid=3) +--- Forum: Discovery RP 24/7 General Discussions (https://discoverygc.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?fid=23) +--- Thread: "Mary Sue" character stigma - problems with RPing bad guys (/showthread.php?tid=102074) |
RE: "Mary Sue" character stigma - problems with RPing bad guys - Thyrzul - 07-18-2013 I admit I've chosen to roleplay a kind of Mary Sue character when I got here and got quite far with it, but over time I realized that it is just one way to act from the many, and a character can be more colorful and there can be entirely different characters. Because of this I have plans to advance in a way where I implement a little but still significant amount of wish for revenge into Pierre based on his earlier life (mother murdered in front of him, father went missing, brother seemed to be missing too), as well as introducing Robert (the lost younger brother) on the opposite side. To spice things up, I add the same "global" goal for both, but two entirely different paths to walk in order to achieve it. One will want to achieve the national peace through freedom, the other through order and unity, and that will put them on the opposite sides of the Second Gallic Civil War. From the viewpoint of each, themselves will be the saints and the other will be the evil, so in the end, it will not really be that easy to tell who is the good guy and who is the bad guy.
Although I won't change much on Pierre, I'm fine with him being a good guy diplomat, I can practice the usage of words on the correct places well with him RE: "Mary Sue" character stigma - problems with RPing bad guys - Benjamin - 07-18-2013 just try being mean to people for no reason. there's some unwritten rule or something, it seems like, that when two official tagged traders pass in the lanes, they say hi to each other. one day I decided I was just going to be mean and petty and rude to those guys on my own official tagged trader, and it was the best decision. when you're in a transport, probably with no guns, dudes know you're not a threat, you're not just dropping insults as a preamble to killing you, you're throwing out abuse purely because you want to, and people don't really seem to mind so much. gives you a new frame of reference (just because I work for a corp and fly a ship with no guns doesn't mean I can't be a hugely violent jerkoff), expands your mind, and forces you to be pretty creative to come up with decent insults that aren't all swears. RE: "Mary Sue" character stigma - problems with RPing bad guys - Treewyrm - 07-18-2013 Well, my quoted responses and commentary were made in a rather sarcastic manner. So I'll try to explain what I've meant originally. Missing in original post is what I respond to in the first place, so it looks a bit out of context, and if I recall correctly it was people saying that it's difficult to play 'bad guys', referring to GRN of course. I suppose that problem often originates from the desire to somewhat instinctively separate characters and factions over the 'good' and 'bad' spectrum. This desire typically isn't of our characters but ourselves as players. While normally it wouldn't be such a problem it however becomes rather ugly when you have players who transfer this sort of binary thinking back and forth between inRP and ooRP, showing it off both in game and in forum/skype attitude. It becomes even tragically ironic when a person uses this 'good vs evil' as a basis for attitude and behavior towards other players, and stretched further serving as sort of a self-justification for actions no person with a common sense would describe as good, harassing players and characters, in and our of RP, just because "they're evil". It becomes amusing when people telling you ought to be a bad person, your characters should be 'bad guys' so that theirs can truly be 'good guys'. Most commonly it is saying in ooRP that Nomads just want to kill all humans and that's it. In fact that's what most think who hasn't read much about them. But you see, it works for them because it justifies their player behavior. Most video games are often based around this primitive 'good vs bad' stigma and Mary Sue heroes, players are always given to portray only one side of that and the one that's wholly pained as good. Even for anti-heroes approach it is often some cause that within the morality constraints tend to be perceived as noble, self-justifying. Culturally we are drawn to be sympathetic towards those portrayed as 'good guys', and it reflects within game actions and behavior as well as outside of RP. Rare games provide you with the environment that shatters these constraints, creating complex connections as opposed to be aligned to binary morality, shuffling characters all across the spectrum, blurring it to the point where you'd struggle to categorize them. That's difficult to create and play, so most run to the comforting simplicity of 'good vs bad' palette where you needn't to think further than that. RE: "Mary Sue" character stigma - problems with RPing bad guys - Thyrzul - 07-18-2013 Actually that's why I love Freelancer with all of it's crapton of faction, because it's pretty far from being black and white good vs evil.
Also, stumbled upon a list of categories on the SC forums by which they intend to categorize squadrons, and thought it might prove helpful to bring more colors into roleplaying own characters. Star Citizen forums Wrote:Lawful Good RE: "Mary Sue" character stigma - problems with RPing bad guys - Sol - 07-18-2013 My character once went through the [LN] recruitment process until he reached the rank Ensign, which's the rank you need to be to be able to fly a Guardian. Then that character stole it, and ran away to be a pirate. Even tried to get some of the LN naval officers killed in the process... Though at the start I really didn't plan all that to happen :| My current char in the [KNF] is working for the Yakuza, collecting tolls from silly looking traders or just accepting bribes from those smugglers. He's also a simple guy who was only pushed on to the Navy job cuz his father wanted him to be epic like his elder brother. He doesn't want to be there. My main char that I played for the last few years was a traitor to his nation. He used many people and led them to their deaths in a silly rebellion that was a sure fail, because he was too stupid, too cocky and too angry. The problem here isn't Mary Sues. Problem is that, there are nobody actually caring for an in depth RP with a proper structure and story going for them. So they just play whatever is the easiest, and jump into the shooting part. It's a lot easier to be a Liberty Navy hero and to shoot all those pirates you see, rather than playing a character that's complex with the ability to make choices depending on their vices and virtues. Besides those, many people will tell you that there's no real evil in FL universe, and even in real life. What you percieve as evil right now has been taught to you by your society, as well as what you percieve as good. And I doubt there's a single person in life that really thinks that they themselves are evil. Everything they do is justified... at least by the time they were doing it. And you'll never meet an Outcast slaver or a drug smuggler that does those things without first having justified his actions with proper reasonings... They will tell you those reasons as well, and you'll find yourself half-agreeing with them. RE: "Mary Sue" character stigma - problems with RPing bad guys - Kazinsal - 07-18-2013 (07-18-2013, 12:18 PM)Thyrzul Wrote: Dude, that's just the D&D alignment system. RE: "Mary Sue" character stigma - problems with RPing bad guys - Treewyrm - 07-18-2013 That's D&D alignment palette, Thyrzul. It's just a slightly more expanded 'good vs evil', not much more than that. Personally I prefer when you have a difficulty categorizing characters into some narrow (or slightly less narrow) morality box. Basically my point is that most are culturally drawn towards playing 'good guys'. It's a safe bet. It's easy to do and countless material just within video games to be based off (as many here do), it's all well-understood, most tropes are all polished to reflective surfaces. Pick one, pick any, mix em a bit and you're good to go. Spice it up with anti-hero bit but that too has been done and overdone. But if too many choose this for their characters then proportions are really skewed and as a result your characters don't have enough 'baddies' around. And I think that's the case I'm observing around. RE: "Mary Sue" character stigma - problems with RPing bad guys - Toaster - 07-18-2013 The problem I have noticed is that, when trying to play a more in-depth character, doing so often fails when interacting with other players in-game. Many of them, as Mithras suggested, prefer playing a simple character in order to get a lot of pew pew. Now, how exactly am I, a player trying to do some in-depth stuff, supposed to RP complex decision making when the character I'm interacting with me doesn't give a damn crap about it and simply wants to see my ship kasplode? RE: "Mary Sue" character stigma - problems with RPing bad guys - Shagohad - 07-18-2013 Alright ladies, sit down and gather round, it's story time! Once upon a time there was an entire world full of super freaks. They had colorful clothing, shouted tacky one-liners, and were bestowed with amazing powers. Now how could one distinguish the good and the bad between these outlandish and demigod-like people? Well by what they did, of course! One group took it upon itself to fight for justice! They became so inflated in their egos that they destroyed anything that didn't agree with 'the law'. And it was good. One group took it upon itself to just shut. Down. Everything. They opposed all forms of authority and pretty much did what ever the so-called law told them not to do. Now here we have to opposites, two halves, two entirely separate things, two peas in very different pods! Is this clear? Soon that line became blurred. People were either sick and tired of the same and decided they wanted to not do it or they simply didn't care. They had to fight to break free of the arrogance and the anarchy of the world that was! And they did. And it was good. But in a universe where everyone possesses the same power and few limitations, who would it be that would stand out? Leaders? Denizens? Followers? No. No. Your accomplishments were simply on par with everyone else. What we needed was weener-waving. And thus people flocked to the forums and made the most outlandish and absurd fiction to justify their butt-kickery and amazingness. Names shall not be named, but we can assume psychics, swords (IN SPACE MIND YOU), and animal half breeds were among some of the various things to try and stand out. Yes, there were some stories that were worth a read, but there were others that even Stephenie Meyer would turn down as trash. But at the end of the day, people just wanted to make their mark and stand out. And what they didn't understand is that they didn't need to be game-breaking power ninjas to do so. That and Gallia was sort of crap to begin with. People simply rejected its lore because it was too powerful. So everyone there had some large, ugly shoes to fill. I was a former Marechal a long while back and we tried to make it believable. And good and bad boils down to: Helping people and hurting people. That's the Disco blur there. RE: "Mary Sue" character stigma - problems with RPing bad guys - Moberg - 07-18-2013 Playing the 'bad guys' brings immense fun, I can tell that by experience. However, not everyone favours or is capable of playing a role that is very distant to his/her own self. This is also because of the difficulty. I doubt that it is easy to go from your daily life mindset to the 'bad guy' mindset, like a bloodthirsty criminal, terrorist or that of a nomad. If you think about it, playing the 'good guy', aka the protagonist, the hero, it is much easier to go into that role. Most players can keep their moral concepts, their ideas. The terms good and bad are quite objective, it depends on the player how they view the characters/faction. Take the red hessians for example. In our society, they would clearly be branded as bad guys, which is perfectly fine. But from their perspective, they are doing the right thing. I think it is harder for players to give his character the mindset of being the good guy while subconciously thinking that they are the bad guys. So in my opinion, it is not really a gameplay issue, atleast not exclusively. How to encourage new players to play antagonists? Not quite sure about that. From a gameplay perspective, I'd say you can't really without putting some weight towards them in terms of balance. |