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+--- Thread: BHG Discussion thread (/showthread.php?tid=10309)
BHG Discussion thread - Jinx - 07-12-2008
you know... the employment office should rather be the BHG contract subsection. - the great advantage of the guild is to have a bulletin board with all bounties written there. - the difference to a mercenary is that the merc has to "get into contact" personally and sort of - each time again with a sponsor. - a lot of work for a single contract when the guild sets up a board that is esaily accessable from anywhere.
for those that are familiar with Battletech. - the BHG would rather use the MercNet ( setup by wolfs dragoners ) while a normal merc would have to ask a goverment if there is work to do. ( the former is taking a job that is offered, the later one is asking for a job to be offered )
while the attempt is a nice one - it won t fix much. the BHG worked well before the merc ID was nerft to gunboats. - its not a faction problem, its a player problem. - one gotto deal with the players that cause the problems not with the faction. i had that BHG BC in delta recently... he had not read the rules ( or if he did, he had not understood them ) - and he was playing by the letter of the ID... which says, all criminals are hostile - and hostiles can be shot on sight. - i couldn t argue much against it. - it says hostile ... who am i to say that hostile for the BHG is not the same like hostile to the outcasts for example. an outcasts marks the corsairs as hostile - they fire on each other on sight.
i told him that he should RP it more properly - like contracts etc. - he said, why should he, pirates are hostile, and he engages them ( no violation of ANY rule there )
so maybe a simple correction in the ID helps. - make it not :
allies : police and cooperations
hostile : pirates and unlawfuls
but instead
allies : contract partners
hostile : contract targets, the order, nomads ( the later in case its a warship in the omicrons )
that would help much - at least for people that can read or care to read their ID ( which i daresay are not all the players )
of course unifying the boards etc can help, but it ll only fix things so much... .
BHG Discussion thread - NonSequitor - 07-12-2008
' Wrote:Couple of notable things on the agenda:
- Unifying bounty boards. All bounties will be asked to go through the BHG, and may sometimes be partially subsidized to do so. As a tag along move, "fair play" will be instituted and you won't see people claim bounties on fighters with their gunships and battlecruisers.
- Getting capital ships to move to the outer systems, where they belong. They're called warships for a reason, they aren't meant to putz around hitting fighters. They will perhaps be paid to engage other capital ships, and scolded, disowned, or even fired upon if they maintain a presence within house systems (soon to be illegal in Rheinland, by the way).
- Training good hunters. I know a lot of people use capital ships because they suck with fighters- so, we start training people to at least not flail around helplessly.
A move in the right direction, Sovereign. Not sure how this idea would work in practice, however.
I want to take issue with some points in your post. First, the "fair play" issue. As a BH, I don't expect to be treated fairly by my opponents. Nor do I see much point in cutting them too much slack. If they're out alone in a VHF, oh well. Yeah, this is a game and everything, but it's also a type of simulation. I don't see any problem with a gunboat / gunship claiming a bounty on a fighter / bomber. More often than not, the bounty is with some of his buddies. And more often than not, I work alone. So typically, the situation is usually in the opponent's favor.
I believe that larger capships should be able to claim bounties on a situational basis, i.e. House authorities require "big guns" for a large-scale invasion repulsion or the bounty target itself is another capship.
However, I believe that BSes shouldn't be hunting at all in House Space - their place is the Lonelicrons. A destroyer / BC should, with House permission, be able to hunt other capships in House Space.
Second point: capital ships in house systems. In principal I agree with this idea, but at the same time it should be interpreted too unconditionally. A larger capital ship (destroyer and larger) should be able to occasionally and with good reason, fly in House Space.
I normally ask permission from the House Naval forces and have yet to have my flight path rejected. Obviously, the cap ship must abide by the protocols set by the Houses during it's visit.
Third point: A good Hunter is not defined by the ship he or she flies, but by how he or she roleplays and treats other players. I doubt you meant to intentionally question the rp-ability of capship pilots, but nonetheless, I'm reading this between-the-lines. I apologize if I've gone too far with my interpretation.
There is a laundry list of reasons why I don't bother with fighters, but I've already stated my reasons behind my own ship choices in other posts. No need to go into it here. However, none of those reasons has anything to do with my inability to fly a fighter. I'm certainly no ace, but no basket case either.
I think many BHs fly capships because they are fun to fly, not because they are incapable of flying anything else. But the idea of training BHs who are interested in honing their fighter pilot skills is an excellent one.
Peace.
BHG Discussion thread - Athenian - 07-12-2008
Bretonia has also bountied all criminals. Our agents will be transferring back home on Monday. As for co-operation, links are graduallly being established, and I've PM'd one or two people already about working together. Many of the bounties are open to merc and FL also. What we can do is use our superior numbers to take down the juicy targets. We're building a wing of bombers for this purpose.
What do we need, imo?
Encourage players in game to get on the forum....so they can read the rants of the anti BH lot? Well nothing like a few obstinate idiots complaining to make us feel united, right?
A centralised portal where matters pertaining to the BHG can be found. (I'm working on this) It will have links to matters being discussed (including development of weapons , ships, etc.); the registration thread, etc...
A code - which would cover things like proper use of guild technology, ensuring that BHG tech doesn't fall into the wrong hands (there are some extreme examples); deployment of large ships, etc. We have one.
We've been regulating ourselves pretty strictly. It works.
A council of Hunters who vote on matters; like the zoners.
One faction becoming the Guild? We're an independent lot. But surely pooling our resources we can become something like that in terms of co operation. I will say this though - when i see another s/d log on I change up and we meet and have a lot more chance of getting those jobs done. It's easier to spot a tag than a name. Three BH ships asking you to drop the 5000 cardi in your hold is pretty persuasive. The [CORE]tag identifies members pretty quickly. It allowed me and [Core]Klaw 117 to give the XA gunboat flown by Greerson a pretty good run for his money.
I guess people are worried about people bossing others around. But a faction does offer structure, guidance, training, pooled resources, realistic promotion and even handedness in dealing with others. People dont want to feel they're being controlled right? I thik it's more a case of too many generals, not enough soldiers. I know a lot of people (who dont play BHers) want a faction to emerge that will be steered into regulating the BH capships. Is this what we want? I'm in favour the LR/XA approach. The S/D won't ever claim to be the BHG faction but we will do our damndest to be the best RP'd one. As for the power thing - haha - try even running a faction as small as ours - it's not so much power as typing...
The sso and DW have official status. DW are in a war with the Junkers in o15 - how does this affect us all especially considering the i.d.changes being proposed?
Encourage the police forces to post open bounties for the BHG alone. These mercs and FL are taking our work. We're a Guild for god's sake. Strike!
The idea of a centralised Bounty Board is nice; I will say in reality it is a hell of a lot of hassle claiming bounties, never mind running a board. Maybe we could suggest guidleines for bounties - people often post them and leave them there (and in a few cases can't be found once the job is done).
Fixing the BHG? The actions of one BH affect the reputations of us all. I think we're more respected in Liberty by the lawful factions since the open contract was announced. We're moving in the right direction.
BHG Discussion thread - Dopamino - 07-12-2008
' Wrote:i had that BHG BC in delta recently... he had not read the rules ( or if he did, he had not understood them ) - and he was playing by the letter of the ID... which says, all criminals are hostile - and hostiles can be shot on sight. - i couldn t argue much against it. - it says hostile ... who am i to say that hostile for the BHG is not the same like hostile to the outcasts for example. an outcasts marks the corsairs as hostile - they fire on each other on sight.If the pirate doesn't run away, then the BHG player should engage and destroy him. It's a matter of kill or be killed because the pirate knows that the BHG has killed his friends, and will probably be coming to kill him some day. The BH knows that he can sell the pilot for a nice pride somewhere, so any pirate is really fair game. If a BH tried to only kill the people there's bounties on, then that guy would be dead pretty fast.
i told him that he should RP it more properly - like contracts etc. - he said, why should he, pirates are hostile, and he engages them ( no violation of ANY rule there )
so maybe a simple correction in the ID helps. - make it not :
allies : police and cooperations
hostile : pirates and unlawfuls
but instead
allies : contract partners
hostile : contract targets, the order, nomads ( the later in case its a warship in the omicrons )
that would help much - at least for people that can read or care to read their ID ( which i daresay are not all the players )
By the way, I'm the head leader of the SSO right now. I'm probably the only active member too;)
BHG Discussion thread - SimonBlack - 07-12-2008
Perhaps Bounty Hunters Guild could somehow make all the contracts of houses show in one place. Now we have different bounty prices in Bretonia and Liberty. Its hard to follow the track and all.
BHG Discussion thread - Jinx - 07-12-2008
"If the pirate doesn't run away, then the BHG player should engage and destroy him. It's a matter of kill or be killed because the pirate knows that the BHG has killed his friends, and will probably be coming to kill him some day. The BH knows that he can sell the pilot for a nice pride somewhere, so any pirate is really fair game. If a BH tried to only kill the people there's bounties on, then that guy would be dead pretty fast." ( dopamino )
that exactly is a point that was critizised in the past. - you remember the people that demanded the BHG only to engage when there was an active contract out? - so the BHG wouldn t charge into the pirates lair and start a firefight - just cause they can.
i guess we gotto get to a consensus on what the BHG is supposed to do then... the attitudes and opinions change each day.
so - regarding to that... should the BHG engage pirates? or should the BHG leave pirates be, unless an active contract is offered. - ( pirates engage the BHG anyway most of the time )
BHG Discussion thread - Raekur - 07-12-2008
Athenian:
DW's conflict is actually with the Harvesters not the Junkers.
Yesterday I was speaking with one of the 522 who will speak with the Harvesters regarding a cease fire.
Quite frankly the conflict there was getting a little confusing considering what 522 is trying to do.
522 became a "lawful" group working to protect unlawfuls by attacking other lawfuls.
I felt that this was not the direction that 522 wanted to go.
The only solution was to work out an end to the conflict.
I think that 522 has potential for some very nice RP but the conflict in Omega-15 was hindering this.
BHG Discussion thread - sovereign - 07-12-2008
Good to see people are interested in this.
Yes, there are quirks to be worked out, and yes, I can see (grudgingly) heavy capital ships being allowed in house space if necessary.
As for unifying bounty boards, what you wrote there Simon is what I had in mind- people post bounties, we ask to take them up into the one bounty listing to rule them all and figure out who is in the area.
Furthering that, we'll need someone to handle getting bounty money to each person who completes it (as well as getting the money from the person who put it out) and I think its worth it to put one on each BHG station, Planet Houston, and a few Freeports out in the Lonelicrons.
About the "fair play" issue, since virtually all pirates are bountied now (except in Kusari, but what is a BHG doing above Shikoku?) that will be less of a problem. However, having gunships roam around looking for fighters isn't cost effective by any stance, if they run into a bountied target in their ZoI then yes they should go for it but house governments (Rheinland at least) aren't keen on allowing them to operate freely in house space. So, fighters and bombers we encourage to work in house territories and ask that all capital ships get to the outer systems- if Dustin is okay with organizing BHG vs Order events, that will help. Corsair and Outcast vs BHG will also give caps something legitimate to do, both can muster adequate forces for the job on any given day (especially Corsairs).
Okay, I'm thinking of asking Igiss to add another section to Role-Play that is specifically for bounties. I'm not sure if it should be Guild only, and would like feedback and something tangible to ask him- suggestions?
Also, I can take care of the Sheffield offices but I need a few others to take the other major bases. They are:
- Planet Houston (not BHG base, but plenty of BHG missions offered there and the "birthplace" of the Guild)
- Deshima Station (warning, might get lonely)
- Rostock Station (Omega-15, right below Rheinland for those who are unfamiliar)
- Freeport 11 in Omicron Delta- note, most capital ships should be based here for wars with the Order and the Nomads
- Freeport 10? in Tau-37
- Freeport 5? in Omega-41
BHG Discussion thread - mrlance - 07-12-2008
Nice.
Subconsciousness message : shared account, maybe one or two moderators to help maintain everything readable, printable too... and for those who missed it : my sub forum proposal
I am not good enough in English, you make it more understandable. Hope that all the positive actions (the saga, the admin selection, and more) will restore the pleasure some good players think they have lost.
BHG Discussion thread - sovereign - 07-12-2008
Thanks for the move, Xoria.
Oh yeah, Jinx, since you are already so well-immersed into the workings of Freeport 11, taking over the bounty office there would be spectacular.