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+---- Thread: revision of the ZONERS faction - to avoid yearly discussions (/showthread.php?tid=110566)
RE: revision of the ZONERS faction - to avoid yearly discussions - djordje_petrovic - 01-20-2014
Colony ships are stupid for PVP. Those are surelz RP tools . I would make colony ship some biig tranport with 5k -6k cargo space with for instance GB turrets and shields . Colonz ship is long so GB solaris for instance would be enough downgraded but enough fast and integrated along big platform that they can deter snubs.
Aquilon carriers are mainlz used as jumper ships. They should retain their energy cores but i would remove their heavz primaries or leave just one, mazbe add some space.
corvos should be lowered with heavz turrets from 2 to one
But fearless ship i think should be buffed somehow up, to be some real joker in hadns of zoners. IT is called q transport. It should get bigger cargo hold and still retain firepower. I would personallz like that fearless is some kind of light frigate class. Good convoy escort ship with some cargo capacitz on its own.
So my suggestion in general scale down zoner capital line toward more cargo and less firepower. Make colony ship RP purposed. Aquilon jumper support ship , and auxilary paracapital commanding warship.
Make corvo realy with light armaments and mazbe allow to go to house space.
And keep fearless somehow OP . To be real safeguard of zoner convoys. i would add it 1.800.00 energy power, more agility , and maybe one less heavy turret.
In general GB turrets on cruisers and cruiser turrets on aquilon hybrids would give that underpowered fire , but adding some cargo or raising agility would be some counterbalance.
Maybe even cruise speed to alter.
I prefer zoners as higly mobile fleets , who avoid fight and not armed properly for engagements , but favouring trade and moving stuff all along with grace and efficiency.
RE: revision of the ZONERS faction - to avoid yearly discussions - Haste - 01-20-2014
I approve of option two. I'd say the Leviathan could be left as that super-rare actual capital ship. Given there's only two floating around, it's at least somewhat feasible that somehow an organization managed to build one with the help of the Zoners' (many) allies.
RE: revision of the ZONERS faction - to avoid yearly discussions - Zen_Mechanics - 01-20-2014
(01-20-2014, 01:48 PM)Mímir Wrote: I don't think 1) will work, and I don't think you should exchange firepower for hull, but simply just reduce the firepower if anything. Fearless and Corvo are pretty difficult to kill as it is due to size and agility; and the jugg has a huge amount of hitpoints, the carrier is pretty decent in terms of hull as well and has a better shape/profile/size: Zoner caps already have quite high survivability, above average for any cap faction out there.
I vote for 2, if Zoners need the big guns (which they really shouldn't unless they are severely messing up) they can work on that diplomacy they are so famous for *cough* and work on getting allies to help them out. Roleplay server and so on.
Also:
(01-20-2014, 01:42 PM)Tel-Aviv Wrote: The Zoners began their new organizations with the realization that they were powerless. They realized that money is power, money is control, money means protection. This led to the creation of the famed Zoner Whale, a machine that would make them rich.
Yes ok we are playing a casual space shooter here, so I'm not asking for a masterpiece or anything; but imo we need to raise the bar a bit if this fiction is going to be just a tiny bit coherent. How's this for a story: "My lowlife pirate guy wanted to get rich, so he created a battleship so powerful that he could destroy planets and demand huge ransoms from all the Houses". Sounds good to you? I mean you are forgetting the pivotal aspect in this creation narrative: The how rather than the why.
Disclaimer: I am the proud owner of 2 Zoner cruisers and a Nephilim along with Zoner snubs and transports before anyone starts crying anti-zoner.
The "how" they get the cap ships is explained, you might have missed it. It could be because of the order help, or the corsairs help. The had the funds, and in the place that they live it isnt too hard to find factions with ship building experience. ( though i believe they dont require anyone, because zoners are pilots, engineers, pizza makers and so forth. ).
As for the last point on the thread, If zoners were basing themselves in liberty, then theres no reason for them to have battleships, you know, like the rouges, but they don't live there, and the majority lives in edge worlds, where there are nomads, corsairs, and hessians, who have the firepower of an entire house, so giving zoners cap ships is reasonable, and i don't even need to bring the "balance card".
RE: revision of the ZONERS faction - to avoid yearly discussions - Mímir - 01-20-2014
Ok so if Order or Corsairs essentially made Zoners what they are, how do Hessians and Liberty institutions look at that, for instance?
Or adversely if Zoners backstabbed Order and Corsair in the process, took their tech and at the same time denied any form of affiliation with them, wouldn't Order and Sairs be slightly butthurt?
FYI Corsairs recently constructed their first real transport (Raba was a refitted failed gunboat), Order doesn't have one, yet they somehow gave Zoners the skills and means to produce arguably the best and most advanced transport in all of Sirius? You need to add a little to that story to make it fly.
Your way of reasoning is still the same though: They have it cuz they "need" it (which in fact they don't at all, if they instead relied on diplomacy, so it's not even a valid argument for balance discussions).
RE: revision of the ZONERS faction - to avoid yearly discussions - Zen_Mechanics - 01-20-2014
(01-20-2014, 02:20 PM)Mímir Wrote: Ok so if Order or Corsairs essentially made Zoners what they are, how do Hessians and Liberty institutions look at that, for instance?
Or adversely if Zoners backstabbed Order and Corsair in the process, took their tech and at the same time denied any form of affiliation with them, wouldn't Order and Sairs be slightly butthurt?
FYI Corsairs recently constructed their first real transport (Raba was a refitted failed gunboat), Order doesn't have one, yet they somehow gave Zoners the skills and means to produce arguably the best and most advanced transport in all of Sirius? You need to add a little to that story to make it fly.
Your way of reasoning is still the same though: They have it cuz they "need" it (which in fact they don't at all, if they instead relied on diplomacy, so it's not even a valid argument for balance discussions).
No no, you don't get it. Diplomacy is an illusion, it doesn't exist, not in the real life, not in Disocvery. The threat is always behind it, and diplomacy doesn't always work, It is a system designed to keep humans in "order", but disorder is in the very nature of us, and diplomacy eventully falls. Especaily if you do this with North korea, or the corsairs.
RE: revision of the ZONERS faction - to avoid yearly discussions - Mímir - 01-20-2014
You are wrong.
There is more to diplomacy that the threat of violence, for instance the promise of co-existance, mutual benefits through trade and tech/resource sharing, political union against an ever bigger evil and so on and so forth. There are many, many, many more aspects than violence or the threat of violence in play, that goes without saying and I can hardly believe we are having this discussion.
RE: revision of the ZONERS faction - to avoid yearly discussions - Scumbag - 01-20-2014
An unique faction line with mixed shields hardpoints and guns and hitpoints is what sound best for the zoners. They are after all not fond of the conventional ways of doing things.
I voted 2. I should have voted 3.
RE: revision of the ZONERS faction - to avoid yearly discussions - Zen_Mechanics - 01-20-2014
(01-20-2014, 02:29 PM)Mímir Wrote: You are wrong
Then with all due respect, you don't live in this realm. Why do we build machines of war if we can just simply do diplomacy with iran, and iraq, and the taliban, and north korea. No, why do they build machines of war? Diplomacy DOESNT ALWAYS work and if you think stripping america's nukes will still keep them strong in the world arena, you are delusional. Thats to say, when you remove zoners the tool of war, you sign a death warrant, because some DONT WANT MUTUAL FRIENDSHIP and etc.
Infact, Im going to suggest on stripping BAF so that they can rely on diplomacy with gallia, after all, gallia wants "co-existance, mutual benefits" right? And the monarch is like the normal diplomat right?
RE: revision of the ZONERS faction - to avoid yearly discussions - Mímir - 01-20-2014
I'm not really sure what you are talking about, I never said diplomacy always work - but in the light of the last 30-40 years of "conflict resolution" out in the real world I do think it is safe to say that neither does violence or the threat thereof.
I never said something about stripping USA of their nukes(?) but I think it is quite revealing that you choose the world's strongest military as your benchmark in a discussion related to Zoners. Zoners shouldn't be anything akin to real life USA or Discovery BAF for that matter, I don't know why it is so hard for you to understand when most other players choose Zoners for this very reason?
RE: revision of the ZONERS faction - to avoid yearly discussions - Scumbag - 01-20-2014
Please stop it with the real life references Tel Aviv. And stop comparing the zoners with Israel, it's not the same thing. This is why you have been arguing with everyone on this forum, stop taking it personally when someone talks about zoners. I know you can find similarities between them but this is just a game and we are all friends here, even if you might not understand it always.