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+--- Thread: Transports (/showthread.php?tid=11296)
Transports - Colonel Z.e.r.o. - 08-15-2008
' Wrote:It doesn't need to be changed. I've been killed by trains and I've been killed by bombers. It's fine as is.I got owned by ryoken's storage barge my first day pirating on my old pirate character......
Transports - chopper - 08-15-2008
In general, I don't think they are too hard to pirate. So, as for PVP aspect, I don't mind them.
What I do mind is that Adv. Trains, which are supposed to use Trade Lanes and have escorts, are often better armored then some ships made for smuggling or more rough conditions.
Advanced Train has 140.000 hull.
Pirate Train has 105.000 hull, makes no sense.
Pirate Transport has 115.000 hull, makes no sense.
Adv. Trains with biggest cargo hold should have the lowest armor.
At least I see them as transports going trough lanes with protection and all.
140k hull is just too much.
Transports - Armageddon - 08-15-2008
I think all transports that arent designed for smuggling or the borderworlds need a nerf. I mean you can take an Adv. train all the way through the borderworlds right now.
For the heavy hitters 4000 cargo + nerf them to a class 6 shield and half the armour. This will make trading more risky and cause more hiring of escorts, different ships being used. And extra Rp in general.
And im a trader and im supporting pirates here. :crazy:
It should be possible to pirate the 4000+ ships with a VHF with a train CD. equipped with faction weapons. Due to most of thier hull been taken by the cargo.
either nerf in that way or remove the armour slot on them.
Transports - BaconSoda - 08-15-2008
' Wrote:Transports need to be tough and what you're asking for is essentially a zero win situation on the end of the trader.
I'm not asking for that. By all means, Traders should have a chance of escaping pirates, but they should be scared of them at the same time. They should hire escorts to fend off pirates, and ask Police/Navy to be assist them. They shouldn't be able to just stroll through the whole of Sirius with the armor of a gunboat. The three Liners are a different story, because they're special ships, more of stations, really, so their armor is understood, but ships like the Trains and Tanker which have armor out the wazoo is ridiculous. Get an Armor upgrade on them, and they can take forever to kill, even with a Gunboat, which isn't exactly right, since Gunboats are designed for war, and Transports are designed to move goods.....
' Wrote:In general, I don't think they are too hard to pirate. So, as for PVP aspect, I don't mind them.
What I do mind is that Adv. Trains, which are supposed to use Trade Lanes and have escorts, are often better armored then some ships made for smuggling or more rough conditions.
Advanced Train has 140.000 hull.
Pirate Train has 105.000 hull, makes no sense.
Pirate Transport has 115.000 hull, makes no sense.
Adv. Trains with biggest cargo hold should have the lowest armor.
At least I see them as transports going trough lanes with protection and all.
140k hull is just too much.
That's more of what I was talking about. A blanket nerf might be too much, but some transports have ridiculous armor. Advanced Train is a prime example of that since it has as much armor as a Rheinland Gunboat, the most heavily armored gunboat in the game....
EDIT:
' Wrote:either nerf in that way or remove the armour slot on them.
I like this idea....
Transports - RParade - 08-15-2008
I voted No to the nerfing of transport armor/shields, and I'm likely biased towards pirates (my current trade character doesn't have to worry about pirates, ever).
.. If you use weapongroups properly, you can take down anything up to a Train (not Advanced Train) with only a single Light Fighter. With LF's/VHF's, the most common problem for me when it comes to taking down large transports is your energy supply. If you apply weapongroups to your shieldbusters/hullcrunchers, CD's, torpedoes or mines and use them effectively, your kill ratio goes up quite alot when it comes to transports. Transport turrets are pretty slow and you can see em' comin' at you, you can dodge almost everything they throw at you.
Even the stronger transports like the Luxury Liner can be threatened by a VHF. The only transport that I feel to be "overpowering" is probably the Container Transport, which.. I've seen that thing whomp Gunboats before. It's not a difficult target for a pair of VHF's though.
Traders don't need to be nerfed, most of the time they don't even shoot back at you anyway, lol.
Transports - Tenacity - 08-15-2008
Quote:For the heavy hitters 4000 cargo + nerf them to a class 6 shield and half the armour. This will make trading more risky and cause more hiring of escorts, different ships being used. And extra Rp in general.
This shouldnt apply to all ships. Vessels like the luxury liner, royal liner, container transport, prison ship, etc. all have high cargo - but are supposed to be 'tough' ships as well.
Transports - Dab - 08-15-2008
Well I will say now. I am slightly biased as a pirate. Not fully though, as I have three different transports (Lux Liner, and 2 BW Trans).
First, armor needs to be dependant on cargo size. Someone said this here before, but bigger cargo transports should have less armor as a balance. Adv. Train needs a pretty big nerf as far as armor goes.. Container Trans either needs a 1,000 cargo size nerf, or a hull nerf. Its got 12 guns, enough to rival a gunboat in firepower.
Adv. Train: 70% of current armor. Cargo stays same.
Container Transport: 1,000 less cargo, or 70% of current armor.
The Liners.. Well I don't know about the Prison and Royal Liners. Far as I know, they aren't that great. I will comment on the Lux Liner. Now, the liner is built for luxury, as well as pretty heavy defenses. It currently has 11 guns and decent armor, as well as 700 bots/batts. I see that as fine for a Lux Liner. Enough to fight a Corsair Gunboat to a standstill (who the victor is a toss up and depends on pilot skill). The cargo is currently 4,200 I believe. The price of a Luxury Liner is 120,000,000.. (120mil) Which sort of adds to the balance. Its the Adv. Train, but sacrifices 800 cargo for twice firepower and extra armor.. That being said, a reduction to 3,800-4,000 cargo probably should happen. Though I don't see it as a big problem. Few enough people use Luxury Liners as it is, and most who do are at least willing to role play them.
The Border Worlds Transport.. This is where I take the opposite approach. It needs an upgrading. Cargohold is 3,600 I think.. But the armor is very low, especially for a ship thats meant to be used in dangerous territory. It also has small firepower, especially compared to the Pirate Train. Needs around a 30% increase to armor. That, or a cargo increase, but I think armor would be more RP and more logical due to its purpose.
I can sympathize with the pirates.. I used to have a great deal of fun pirating, and I had to work for it.. Since transports got so upgraded, I've resorted to using my bomber for pirating, rather than the fighter I'd rather be in. I know a lot of others who are doing the same.
One of the big problems is the shields. Fighters have a hard time keeping them down long enough to do any hull damage. Bombers don't have to worry, because they can fire 4 codenames non-stop, and have a supernova/inferno just in case. Fighters run out of energy too quickly. First thing; Remove the Adv. Transport Shields. Just take them and put them on the Lost Battlestar. Change them to 1 point of shield HP so people sell them. Then take the normal Transport shield and make it about 75% of current. The civilian is fine. That will give fighters a chance to at least get a transports shield down. Doing so now is difficult if that transport shoots back.
Programming class over, I'll elaborate more when I'm home..
But to summerize, the shields and armor need a decrease. Not too much, but definitely needs to happen.
Transports - Doom - 08-15-2008
' Wrote:This shouldnt apply to all ships. Vessels like the luxury liner, royal liner, container transport, prison ship, etc. all have high cargo - but are supposed to be 'tough' ships as well.leaving them like that, but making all other transports weaker could result in very funny situations where almost every trader would fly in one of those ships...
i am sorry to say this, but in order to keep variety among transports used in space they need to be quite similar to each other stats wise...
I know that each trader should use ship closest to their RP but unfortunately isn't the case...
atm, trade ships are quite OK...most of them can't fire more then 6 turrets in any of directions, and most of stronger transports can fire even more...thus making them tougher...
as for Liners and such "strong" transports, i personally never experienced that any of the liners, even teamed in pairs , threatened my GB while pirating to that extent that i would retreat...
so i don't see any reason that we should "nerf" transports simply cause somebody can't pirate them...
If i, as very good GB pilot, can destroy C-trans and lux liner while they had battleship support using only my GB, i would expect that ALL pirates using GBs manage to pirate (and destroy if refused payment) any of the transports.
As for lone VHF...VHFs are not meant to go pirating alone. Thus we create hunting packs. Period...Like somebody mentioned...Titan is one of rare fighters made for pirating alone, and that ship does it well...eagle isn't meant to be used as pirate ship...but there some who manage that...not all is in ship...pilot has some influence too:P
oh and yes...two times i killed bombers with my GMG miner (catamaran and bargest)...are those bombers bad or my transport ship is too strong (6 turrets)?...nope...those two bombers are in top 3 bombers for pirating...but their pilots sucked...
Pirating should never be easy...but pirates have at their disposal a lot of firepower to match any transport strength...
And besides, not all pirates should be able to take on largest transports...just like in all other aspects of the game, stronger pirate faction stronger means of dealing damage....
Transports - mjolnir - 08-15-2008
' Wrote:The Border Worlds Transport.. This is where I take the opposite approach. It needs an upgrading. Cargohold is 3,600 I think.. But the armor is very low, especially for a ship thats meant to be used in dangerous territory. It also has small firepower, especially compared to the Pirate Train. Needs around a 30% increase to armor. That, or a cargo increase, but I think armor would be more RP and more logical due to its purpose.
With the rest I can agree, but not with this one
BW transport is TINY compared with other transports, it can actually dodge things! It also has a CM which compared with the small size make it escape by hitting cruiser + spamming CMs quite often.
Transports - Tenacity - 08-15-2008
' Wrote:With the rest I can agree, but not with this one
BW transport is TINY compared with other transports, it can actually dodge things! It also has a CM which compared with the small size make it escape by hitting cruiser + spamming CMs quite often.
when 90% of the server is running around with train cruise disruptors, CM's are pointless.