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+--- Thread: Do the Junkers still have immunity from random BH attacks? (/showthread.php?tid=11334)
Do the Junkers still have immunity from random BH attacks? - Tenacity - 08-16-2008
Like I said, no junker should be using the alliance with the harvesters as a threat or as justification for criminal actions. A junker will always stay out of conflict if possible.
In my example above, which happened today - I did not openly express any sort of alliance with the harvesters other than saying "harvesters, stand down" when the bounty hunter asked for a '1 on 1' meeting to make the exchange (which is reasonable). After I had the pilots in my hold, I asked the harvesters in -private- chat to hunt down the bounty hunter and scrap his ship.
The situation in omega 15 is far different from that in any other part of sirius though. The harvesters have based themselves out of omega 15 and have an almost constant presence at bornholme - so we cant really 'deny' allegiance with them since it's obvious they arent attacking us like they attack everyone else.
Think of the junkers in O15 like the zoners in omicron theta - We've grown strong enough to not have to put up with anyone's crap. The zoners in theta are at odds with both the corsairs and the outcasts because they have the power to back their own laws.
in omega 15, we wont tolerate any violent acts around our station. It doesnt matter if you're a bounty hunter, corsair, hessian, or rheinland military - if you come into that field you're in our territory and you play by our rules. Most junker stations dont have the defenses to make that kind of claim - but we've got a heavy harvester presence in the area, and they will protect bornholme from any and all hostilities. That is our advantage.
as to the DW thing... It doesnt matter if they're at war with the harvesters or not, they need to stay away from bornholme - do the fighting elsewhere.
Do the Junkers still have immunity from random BH attacks? - RParade - 08-16-2008
Quote:To say that a Junker who performs such an action isn't a 'true' Junker is rubbish as is the statement about 'factionalized' Junkers. The position of a unified body carries more weight against the whole than the actions of an individual, true, but as the Junkers as a whole are conducting themselves in a increasingly militant fashion with the advent of their new alliance with the Harvesters it stands to reason the Bounty Hunters would look upon this evolution of politics and adjust their hostilities accordingly.
I see where you're coming from, but really..
Calling it an "alliance" is somewhat unfair. Junkers let Harvesters dock at their bases because the alternative is so totally worse - allout war with the Harvesters. When it comes to the Harvesters the Junkers have their hands tied behind their backs, pretty much. This is pretty true with the Outcasts and the Corsairs too, it's not like you can say no to one side and still keep the other happy - and if you say no to both sides to be fair then you've got both factions gunning for you.
You could make speculations like this about many or most faction relations, just because two sides aren't shooting one another it doesn't make them "allied."
Do the Junkers still have immunity from random BH attacks? - ProwlerPC - 08-16-2008
:laugh:
As a player I like the creativity of the Harvestors story.
As a S/D they haven't shown any hostility to me, at one point I told them we were curious of their nature (S/D being a fairly new group) They sent too cruisers over we scanned each other and went our own way.
So while I can't exactly say we love them, I don't feel it is necessary yet for us to be hostile to them unless paid to be ;)
Do the Junkers still have immunity from random BH attacks? - Jinx - 08-16-2008
@Tenacity:
the situation is different. - the zoners in theta are the only faction present. they don t only have two large bases there, but also a connection to their guard system 74.
o-15 is a shared system by 3 STRONG factions. - the supposed HQ of the BHG warfleet, a strong presence of the rheinlanders and the junkers. - when you sum up the powers, the BHG easily deploys the greatest power there, with a connection to their guard system and the forge of their warships.
so you might rather wanne compare it to omicron-delta and the zoners. - and there, you see that the zoners only "govern" 5k around their station - and the rest is not their business.
Do the Junkers still have immunity from random BH attacks? - Dusty Lens - 08-16-2008
' Wrote:I see where you're coming from, but really..
Calling it an "alliance" is somewhat unfair.
I didn't declare them allies, I observed that they had themselves declare each other allied and acted in accordance with that alliance.
I'm just sitting in my chair and mulling things over. I don't really want Bounty Hunters to shoot at my collector any moreso than they already do:D
Do the Junkers still have immunity from random BH attacks? - MB52 - 08-16-2008
I'm surprised the junkers have stayed neutral with the lawfuls this long..
Seems every 2nd junker my LPI meets is either attacking me, or badmouthing the lawfuls.
Not to mention all the smuggling they always get caught doing...( they speed dock..)
Killing lawfuls... I seen a junker attack and kill a lawful in front of manhattan then dock afterwards, something about how he's neutral?
Obviously all isolated incidents.. but I think ALOT of players choose junkers so they can do unlawful actions and not face the consequences with the lawfuls.
Do the Junkers still have immunity from random BH attacks? - Tenacity - 08-16-2008
In the end, a Junker is all about profit. If we pick a side in any conflict, we cant profit from it and actually lose profit due to losses from enemy forces. Rather than joining a conflict, we sit to the side and profit from the engagements of those who are involved.
With the harvesters, we have a mutually beneficial arrangement. They dont eat us and turn us into harvey-paste, and they protect our bases - in exchange we let them dock at those bases, and we provide repairs to their ships (junkers are mechanical geniuses, which makes us very valuable as repair technicians to the harvesters).
However, just because that arrangement exists doesnt mean we go about flaunting it. Any junker stating that he has relations with the harvesters is very likely going to be captured and interrogated (and subsequently killed) by any house police or military that hear him say such. The harvesters are a threat to all of humanity (junkers aside) because they feed off of both people and the ships they fly.
And, as RParade said, we're better off keeping our mouths shut about it and using that 'power' in secret. We dont run around new york saying "I've got ties with the outcasts, if you stop my cardi-smugglin I'll have them invade and blow up manhattan!" - the outcasts are not going to listen to a lunatic like that, and saying such will very likely get that junker destroyed outright by the navy/police/LSF for threatening the security of liberty.
Likewise, the same goes for our 'alliance' with corsairs. We do work for them, but that doesnt mean they're going to send their fleet after anyone that messes with us - we're expendable in that manner, and they have other issues to deal with (the outcast/corsair war in particular).
If you want to get revenge as a junker, do it in secret - either hire an unlawful bounty hunter or send a tip to a corsair/outcast/harvester that you'd like a certain someone killed in exchange for some credits or favors. Dont go running around using your 'influence' with powerful factions as a shield to protect you from the lawfuls.
Do the Junkers still have immunity from random BH attacks? - ProwlerPC - 08-16-2008
The general neutrality of the junkers is a bonus in the way that each junker or junker faction should be judged on a case-bycase basis. It is a reflection of that neutrality and I'm fine with it.
BHG on these matter have an easier time judging that case-by-case scenario by simply looking to see if there is a lawful contract on a particular junker or junker organization.
I feel a little sorry for the House Police their decision is harder, but isn't that the way it is in life?
Do the Junkers still have immunity from random BH attacks? - RParade - 08-16-2008
I'm guessing we need to set up some sort of "complaint box" for Junkers.
I guess the time has come where Junkers are gonna have to start policing their own, which.. Really isn't something I expected (or want) to do, since it does require trying to force other players to play a certain way (your way).
This stuff is making life hard for the rest of us though, and something needs to be done about it.
Do the Junkers still have immunity from random BH attacks? - Rudo - 08-16-2008
It's been said before: If a Junker does something stupid, the actions shine on that Junker alone. If a Junker gets caught red-handed, we deny all relation to him. We're tight-knit but not so apt to sacrifice our neutrality.
In other words, if a Junker crosses the line, go ahead and drop him without worry of factional reprecussions. The old excuse "Never saw that guy before" applies here. We don't suffer idiots who threaten our fine balance through greed and misplaced pride.
Too many are treating the Junker tag like a Zoner tag for unlawfuls. Our immunity is a common misconception and I welcome any who choose to shatter it when it's needed. We need to thin the herd some -- unsubtle loudmouths and blatant smugglers are killing our PR.
...as for the Harvesters, again: Ask me in-game. "I don't know that guy."