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+--- Forum: Discovery RP 24/7 General Discussions (https://discoverygc.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?fid=23)
+--- Thread: About an ID abuse (/showthread.php?tid=125401)
RE: About an ID abuse - MÃmir - 01-29-2015
Well, a formal discussion regarding the use/abuse of the ID would have been warranted.
I don't find it oorp or abuse to tax a lowly fighter when I know he is easier to get credits out of than a transport. Even when dying, most fighters leave behind trash that fits in the cargo hold of a VHF and can be sold for a handsome amount of credits, unlike dead transports. I could have run my characters as closed-economy characters and made quite a bit on taxing snubs exclusively.
Why is that abuse?
Do pirates have a particular (and peculiar!) taste for only one class of ship? It's so silly, but the outcome of the discussion was set in advance: Pirate ID'd players that rob snubs are PVP-whores that abuse the ID, no debate.
The forum is quite often daft like that, there's an incredible lack of imagination when it comes to anything else but analyzing the imagined negative oorp motives of the player across from you.
RE: About an ID abuse - Leppy - 01-29-2015
(01-29-2015, 08:37 PM)Tutashkhia Wrote: *snip*
Scenario 1:
This seems to rather be your own fault that you decided to give up on running away as soon as you were disrupted a few times. If you know the gank is coming and decide to simply "give up" and wait for it, then that is your problem; you have no right to then come and complain about being "helpless" against a gank-squad forming to come for you.
Scenario 2:
(Attempting to ignore the irony of the situation where your group of players is on the "losing side" of an ID write-up)
Before I begin, I want to say that I am not at all advocating the destruction of any sort of the generic pirate ID.
While the situation being described definitely feels a little odd, you do have to remember that the pirate ID is essentially the ID that is the easiest to fly. You have absolutely no restrictions on ZOI, you can freely pirate any faction (lawful, unlawful, quasi-lawful), freely ally with any unlawful faction, and fly a rather wide variety of ships with only a relatively small (~90%) nerf. In order to balance those benefits, there need to be restrictions that keep the ID from becoming "OP" or essentially a terrorist ID (which is what is had become prior to the most recent changes).
Limiting and ID such as the pirate ID to prevent it becoming a terrorist ID is an extremely delicate balance. You need to allow the ID the freedom to have an unlimited ZOI, pirate any faction's transports, and ally with any compatible unlawfuls while preventing it from becoming a kill everything in sight ID.
Maybe restrict the pirate ID from allying with any ID that isn't also generic? But in exchange add in the line stating that the pirate ID can "engage others in defense of themselves or their allies?"
This would encourage groups of players to migrate together to either one ID or another (eg: from your example, everyone would either be LH/Outcast or everyone would be pirate ID). It would also give pirate players the ability to defend other members of their group in a group fight.
RE: About an ID abuse - Lucky Buzz - 01-29-2015
You could always pirate outside of their ZOI.
RE: About an ID abuse - Doria - 01-29-2015
"Oh, I used to gank everybody and abuse IDs, now people are doing the same to me! QQ!"
That's the same restriction that all generic ID's have. Deal with it.
EDIT: by the way, good fight in stut just now...
RE: About an ID abuse - Redon - 01-29-2015
I think that if you are trying to fly away and a player keeps you from doing so by repeatedly CDing your ship, the rules should allow you to engage them regardless of ID restrictions. In that situation I would probably do it anyway, preceded by a warning of course.
That said Tuta, the best way to receive good RP, consideration and fairplay from the opposing side is to treat them as you would want them to treat you.
RE: About an ID abuse - Arioch - 01-29-2015
(01-29-2015, 09:40 PM)Leppy Wrote: Maybe restrict the pirate ID from allying with any ID that isn't also generic? But in exchange add in the line stating that the pirate ID can "engage others in defense of themselves or their allies?"
This would encourage groups of players to migrate together to either one ID or another (eg: from your example, everyone would either be LH/Outcast or everyone would be pirate ID). It would also give pirate players the ability to defend other members of their group in a group fight.
See below -
(01-29-2015, 09:32 PM)Drrobe Wrote: Second, the line says "Can defend same affiliated ships". Meaning, if you are a Rogue IFF'd, Pirate ID'd player, you can defend Rogues being attacked. Have RH IFF? Then you can defend RH ships in Rheinland. You want to be everywhere, and be able to attack everyone? Then see how the RP plays out and judge it based on that.
RE: About an ID abuse - Trev - 01-29-2015
I don't think the problem here is the ID. The problem is that you didn't shoot the person who CDed you. It should be permissible via rules to shoot and kill anyone who CDs you. Actually, I thought it already was. Maybe an admin should clarify this.
RE: About an ID abuse - Leppy - 01-29-2015
(01-29-2015, 09:51 PM)Drrobe Wrote:(01-29-2015, 09:40 PM)Leppy Wrote: Maybe restrict the pirate ID from allying with any ID that isn't also generic? But in exchange add in the line stating that the pirate ID can "engage others in defense of themselves or their allies?"
This would encourage groups of players to migrate together to either one ID or another (eg: from your example, everyone would either be LH/Outcast or everyone would be pirate ID). It would also give pirate players the ability to defend other members of their group in a group fight.
See below -
(01-29-2015, 09:32 PM)Drrobe Wrote: Second, the line says "Can defend same affiliated ships". Meaning, if you are a Rogue IFF'd, Pirate ID'd player, you can defend Rogues being attacked. Have RH IFF? Then you can defend RH ships in Rheinland. You want to be everywhere, and be able to attack everyone? Then see how the RP plays out and judge it based on that.
And I completely failed to notice that. Your post went up as I was still writing mine
I honestly see no reason for changing the ID then *shrug*
RE: About an ID abuse - Karst - 01-29-2015
It's my understanding that while a lone CD is not an attack, keeping someone CD'd and preventing them from leaving is.
Always treated it like this and never got in trouble.
That having been said, I can imagine the new ID will lead to awkward situations.
RE: About an ID abuse - Tutashkhia - 01-29-2015
@Drobbe, the problem is that when we're grouped the RP doesn't go as you said. Most time they see Pirate ID'd vassal with FL IFF grouped with Outcast (for example) and the RP goes like this "Oh look, Outcasts -Let's deal with them". And I don't get your answer, whether the situations above are a sample of ID abuse or not. The way you(admins) judge things, it really is.
And if I wanted to be shown as a Rogue, I'd mount a Rogue ID and instead of having 75% core,I'd have 100%. Do I look like that stupid?
I'm judging the way you judged things. Wearing a Rogue IFF on my Pirate ID'd ship? You will call me an IFF abuser for 100%. I don't want to listen the tricks I should do to avoid abuse from their side.