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+--- Thread: Move PoBs from the Mining Fields (/showthread.php?tid=128512)
RE: Move PoBs from the Mining Fields - jammi - 04-16-2015
(04-16-2015, 07:35 PM)Toris James Gray Wrote:Quote:Miners mine right next to a POB with 99999999 Battleship weapons platforms and can quickly dock and log straight off whether they see the pirate approach them in the field
Not to be rude here, but shouldn't it be considered "tactic"? Why placing a highly fortified base in the dangerous/important/Class A area is wrong? It's a tactical movement to secure areas and is more than valid, even more, LOGICAL for the roleplay.
To be fair here however, bases should not be overarmed for balance reasons.
I fully get where you're coming from, however it seems that in many cases, 'logical' RP has to be curtailed for the good of the server environment. As an example, building security stations for area defence around unsecure jump gates could be considered highly logical.
Despite this, they were considered detrimental to the server and gameplay, and if a base is made for that purpose now, you'll not receive blueprints from the admins. In an ideal world, we'd have a limitless number of players, and when facing adversity they'd just adapt.
Unfortunately, that's not the case and people play here to be entertained. If there is a mechanism which is causing widespread disillusionment for the majority, that's a serious issue that needs addressing. The entire dynamic of systems like Dublin and Omega 7 relies on the interplay between miners, traders, pirates and lawfuls. Leaving a mechanic alone that entirely removes one of those from that dynamic is frankly irresponsible.
'Area denial' bases have been phased out because they had an adverse impact on interaction, raids, etc. Surely mining bases should be relocated / phased out for the same reason? Otherwise the justification for any tampering at all was fundamentally inconsistent. 10k difference is all it'd need.
RE: Move PoBs from the Mining Fields - Geolog - 04-16-2015
(04-16-2015, 06:56 PM)jammi Wrote: To be fair, debating based on the most extreme minority case doesn't reveal a solid argument.
Currently, there are bases where you can mine sat on top of the docking point. There is literally no counter to that, save having a cloaking device and then raising the shield with your first shot. Of course, if the base has weapon platforms, the pirate is still up the creek, so to speak.
Your last post basically stated that miners should be immune seeing as pirates can simply hit the transports. Are you not seeing how that mentality is detrimental overall? If the majority of BMM mined like that, the Mollys would have nothing to do. If the majority of Kruger or Daumann mined like that, the Hessians would be starved of their logical enemies.
Miners are a part of the food chain too, that's just a fact of server life. Personally, I'd be happy with the bases being moved to 10k outside the fields. Still close enough to be convenient, and close enough for an eagle-eyed miner to escape. But not so close that escape is immediately a forgone conclusion that frankly makes piracy irrelevant.
Risk and reward determines price here, and that balance is currenly heavily askew.
You also don't get pirates F1ing in mining fields and no one doing anything about it. Perfectly okay. Not like something can be done about that. Unless you go mining with 1 miner and 5 bombers and consider it a mining operation. Btw those starved enemies that raped miners were Hessians and Corsairs.
Other posts related:
As for balance that's why there is a cloak. Go cloak, CD the base and pirate. If you think pirating next to the POB is impossible then you should try it. I did and it's double. Or other pirating ways. There are, go discover.
I'm not one sided. I have been to the other side and seen how pirating is super easy. Did it with all types of ships.
As for metagaming, playerlist is for losers. I don't watch it and because I don't watch it pirates pirate me often.
PS: Btw, don't bother replying to my post. I know everyone have a hammer to throw at me.
EDIT: Pirating miners is okay, don't get me wrong about that. But F1ing in field is bad. My posts were qqing about that king of piracy. But that kind of piracy seams okay to do that these days, while putting a base in the mining fields is super bad.
RE: Move PoBs from the Mining Fields - Highland Laddie - 04-16-2015
Quote:Not to be rude here, but shouldn't it be considered "tactic"? Why placing a highly fortified base in the dangerous/important/Class A area is wrong?
Part of the game-cycle of Freelancer is that pirates need to be able to put miners at risk. Miners were never meant to have complete ease and autonomy to do their work without risk of piracy. Putting a highly defensible base in the very middle of a mining area essentially denies that entire aspect of the cycle and throws it out of whack.
InRP, it would be highly unlikely that such a facility could come into existence without being destroyed by an active pirate group. OORPly, such a base could be constructed within a matter of hours by a handful of players overnight when there is nobody to oppose them. That's just unbalanced (as has been pointed out MANY times since PoBs came into being). Granted, we have NEW base rules that help prevent these kinds of bases from popping up, but some of these bases have been around since before these rules were created and have simply gotten a "free pass," while others have simply adjusted to having the universe around them adjusted to make them more useless, or less damaging (I believe Saltese has experienced this, as well as Goldern Coin).
I've always been an advocate of "No PoBs within 10k of anything dockable or within 20k from any mining fields"
Edit: Ninja'd by Jammi again.
RE: Move PoBs from the Mining Fields - Lythrilux - 04-16-2015
(04-16-2015, 07:35 PM)Toris James Gray Wrote:Quote:Miners mine right next to a POB with 99999999 Battleship weapons platforms and can quickly dock and log straight off whether they see the pirate approach them in the field
Not to be rude here, but shouldn't it be considered "tactic"? Why placing a highly fortified base in the dangerous/important/Class A area is wrong? It's a tactical movement to secure areas and is more than valid, even more, LOGICAL for the roleplay.
To be fair here however, bases should not be overarmed for sake of balance as some people pointed it out.
I mean, come on. Benford was taken down by three LNSC units in, let's say, 30 minutes (in-game world time).
There's a fine line between "tactic" and "things which harm server gameplay"; overly heavily armed POBs cross that line and step far into the latter.
(04-16-2015, 07:44 PM)Geolog Wrote: You also don't get pirates F1ing in mining fields and no one doing anything about it. Perfectly okay. Not like something can be done about that. Unless you go mining with 1 miner and 5 bombers and consider it a mining operation. Btw those starved enemies that raped miners were Hessians and Corsairs.Space is dangerous. It's not meant to be a safe place covered in Styrofoam.
(04-16-2015, 07:44 PM)Geolog Wrote: As for balance that's why there is a cloak. Go cloak, CD the base and pirate. If you think pirating next to the POB is impossible then you should try it. I did and it's double. Or other pirating ways. There are, go discover.So it's going to become the norm for Pirates to fork out ~100,000,000 just to be able to pirate a single hauler/miner? I don't see haulers or miners paying 100,000,000 every time they want to mine in one of these POB infested mining fields. Also please, I'm not going to believe that you're able to pirate in a storm of 5 battleships weapons platforms. Furthermore it's not healthy to suggest that players should give up and go pirate elsewhere.
RE: Move PoBs from the Mining Fields - Geolog - 04-16-2015
@Lyth
F1ing in space and checking the player list is also abusing game mechanics and metagaming not dangerous space.
As for testing the pobs. You can join me in piracy in Omega-7. We can go pirate Krugers when they are mining and I will show you the magic.
RE: Move PoBs from the Mining Fields - Fluffyball - 04-16-2015
Lyth-sama Wrote:There's a fine line between "tactic" and "things which harm server gameplay"; overly heavily armed POBs cross that line and step far into the latter.
Geolog Wrote:Part of the game-cycle of Freelancer is that pirates need to be able to put miners at risk. Miners were never meant to have complete ease and autonomy to do their work without risk of piracy. Putting a highly defensible base in the very middle of a mining area essentially denies that entire aspect of the cycle and throws it out of whack.
That's why I pointed out that bases shouldn't be overarmed.
What about we changed base outfit into Energy Cannons then (harming shields, but not hull)?
RE: Move PoBs from the Mining Fields - jammi - 04-16-2015
(04-16-2015, 07:50 PM)Highland Laddie Wrote: I've always been an advocate of "No PoBs within 10k of anything dockable or within 20k from any mining fields"Really, three's no harm in PoBs being located near an NPC base. It can make supplying easier, but there's very little abuse that can be conducted that way - it doesn't really affect any of the interplay mentioned above, because if a pirate chased someone that far, they'd have been able to dock to escape normally anyway. Well, maybe you could abuse that through the reverse, using platforms to try and kill anyone who wanted to dock? Dunno. I suspect the admins would take quite a dim view of that.
Edit: Ninja'd by Jammi again.
10k would be more than enough distance from a mining field to be reasonable, as well. Miners shouldn't be sitting ducks, not by any stretch. 10k allows a particularly sharp eyed miner to save himself when a hostile appears on the edge of his scanner, but it doesn't guarantee his escape. It means the depot is still close enough to be convenient for mining (although still optimally more efficient with a transport buddy shuttling), and the effort of maintaining a base still increases their survival chances.
And yeah, I'm a ninja qualified by Ra's Al Ghul. He's an affiliated sponsor of Bowex.
RE: Move PoBs from the Mining Fields - Diamanten Vorposten - 04-16-2015
(04-16-2015, 05:51 PM)SpaceTime Wrote: So when are they going to be moved elsewhere?
Devs created mining fields back in the day in order for people who worked in groups to make lots of profits (bigger than solo traders) but also at a higher risk. We know the current dev team is thinking about it, but unlike PoB rioting or other minor stuff, this is something important as it has to do with the server's gameplay balance.
Here is the list of the PoBs which has to be moved:
Quote:Fortitudine - Manchester system - Owned by BMF|
FortiSec - Manchester system - Owned by BMF|
Platinum Incorporated - Alberta system - Owned by DSE)
Rutherford Spaceport - Alberta system - Owned by DSE)
Saltese - Humboldt system - Owned by the Junker Congress
Reutlingen Storage Facility - Omega-7 system - Owned by Kruger|
Shiojiri Storage Depot - Nagano system - Owned by Samura|-
Bauxite Minerial Extraction - Munich system - Owned by ??? (DHC indies)
Hochschild Gold Mining PLC - Dublin system - Owned by ??? (BMM indies)
why you asking the people in-charge of the mod development to ruin other people fun? just because you don't like it ? do you think that you are the only player here? don't you think that there are a majority of players built these bases and are having fun using them? do you know that there are a huge amount of players visiting these bases daily importing and exporting ores and other commodities?
Think about other people fun too, because you are not the only one who play on this server.
RE: Move PoBs from the Mining Fields - Garrett Jax - 04-16-2015
(04-16-2015, 07:59 PM)Geolog Wrote: @Lyth
F1ing in space and checking the player list is also abusing game mechanics and metagaming not dangerous space.
As for testing the pobs. You can join me in piracy in Omega-7. We can go pirate Krugers when they are mining and I will show you the magic.
Geolog, I appreciate your valid concern about F1ing pirates. Are there any other concerns you might have about moving POB's away from mining locations?
RE: Move PoBs from the Mining Fields - Stoner_Steve - 04-16-2015
A better debate topic would be; are PoB subject to location restrictions, and why?
If we restrict the locations because of "fair play" are any of the bases considered fair play then, wouldn't the simple building of any core of a base make things unfair for someone somewhere. Its a fine line to draw, let alone toe.