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+--- Thread: NPCs kinda suck (/showthread.php?tid=128993)
RE: NPCs kinda suck - Lord Caedus - 05-03-2015
The main problem with NPC balance is that, as far as I remember, they have unlimited powercore, so they can fire their guns indefinitely. Have to agree with Toris though, I was repping up a character last night and got completely facerolled by a bunch of BHG NPCs in Mantas.
RE: NPCs kinda suck - boxcartenant - 05-03-2015
(05-03-2015, 06:57 AM)Sabru Wrote: A few updates earlier, NPCs were quite OP and people were getting instagibbed by hostile NPCs while trying to RP with other players. So they were made a non-issue.
So, I understand that if the NPCs are so OP that they are wrecking players in game then they should be taken out, but it shouldn't be that the NPCs are just decorations in one sector, and then player-difficulty in another. Correct me if I'm wrong about this, but I'm lead to believe that the Mods have the power to balance NPC loadouts so that they have a range of difficulties.
(05-03-2015, 10:54 AM)Toris Gray Wrote: On my side, I took 300k mission - pressumably the safest with easy difficulty - on a Lynx. I ended up cancelling the mission after 20 minutes on second WP, since I got dry on seven 19lvl Mollys and I had like 2% of hull.
No one warned me about mission NPCs as strong as player characters.
Yeah, mission NPCs can be hella hard. I don't think I could do some of the higher difficulty missions alone in a light fighter, even if I was a very good pilot.
One of the issues with putting all the danger in the missions is that not every faction/base has missions. Another is just that space is not a padded room.
I understand that the moderators want this game experience to have a focus on player interaction, and that's fine and good. However, there should be areas where player interaction is more easy or more difficult, depending on each player's faction relationships. Wouldn't it make sense if it were "unwise" for two civilians to sit and chat in pirate space? Because right now, that's perfectly fine, and the only place where players have to be aware of their surroundings is at the far edge of the galaxy.
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There should be a balance between AI presence and AI difficulty. It is not good to have space be mostly empty if the AIs are too strong, because then as soon as you see an AI you'd be dead. But it is not good to have space be mostly occupied if the AIs are too weak, because then there's no suspense, and "sneaking" through enemy space is as easy as turning on cruise and walking away to fix something to eat.
Just an idea, but perhaps the best thing to do would be to give all NPCs a strong combat AI, and then scale their difficulty as a ratio of their weapon output vs the shield recharge rate (at 100% power) of the starting ship. Then increase difficulty proportionately to distance away from the starting system. Naturally, their weapon strength should be similar to their shield strength; every AI should be able to destroy itself. The Mods should be sure that the weakest AI is, at worst, a match for the starting ship when the ai is in a group of 2 or more.
Then, significantly reduce the frequency of AI encounters. Perhaps limit them entirely to encounters with AI who are flying patrol routs (if they aren't already. If they are already, then reduce AI respawn rate). This would make space feel more real, because, for example, buying an expensive radar would be imperative for smugglers. A person wanting to do an especially dangerous trade rout might even have to learn the AI patrol paths to protect himself (almost as if the player's ship were actually in a hostile part of space).
This may require substantial work for the Mods, such as adding a few new guns/shields (i.e. "AIGun_lvl1", "AIGun_lvl2"... etc), so I don't expect it to happen overnight. Does this seem reasonable to you guys?
RE: NPCs kinda suck - Lord Caedus - 05-03-2015
NPCs also provide certain functions in the game. They remove dropped loot, which can, if unchecked, lag the server up hard.
RE: NPCs kinda suck - Karst - 05-04-2015
(05-03-2015, 06:33 AM)boxcartenant Wrote: but it's like the NPCs are intended to be just background objects.
That's the point.
Sure it makes flying around a little more interesting if NPCs can actually pose a threat, but it makes player interaction much more of a hassle, and player interaction is what this server is mainly about.
Trying to roleplay with someone with hostile NPCs around? You'll have to balance typing with dodging and shooting.
Trying to have a good pvp encounter? The NPCs will influence the outcome.
Anyone who was around for the god-tier IMG NPCs in Tau-23 that had debs and class 9 guns will know why we don't have strong NPCs anymore.
RE: NPCs kinda suck - SpaceTime - 05-04-2015
NPCs are not much of a problem now. You just thrust around like a lunatic and pretend everything is just fine.
Jump Gate turrets should get a nerf imo.
RE: NPCs kinda suck - Fluffyball - 05-04-2015
(05-04-2015, 02:20 PM)SpaceTime Wrote: Jump Gate turrets should get a nerf imo.
Seconded. They aren't a problem when you lurk inside jumpgate, but they can hit people pretty bad if e.g. CD missed target and hell awakens. I mean, they are just jumpgates.
RE: NPCs kinda suck - Wesker - 05-04-2015
Pls make them bumpable I hate when they bump me 2000000000000000 miles away from a mining spot in a 5ker.
RE: NPCs kinda suck - boxcartenant - 05-04-2015
(05-04-2015, 02:07 PM)Karst Wrote:(05-03-2015, 06:33 AM)boxcartenant Wrote: but it's like the NPCs are intended to be just background objects.
That's the point.
Sure it makes flying around a little more interesting if NPCs can actually pose a threat, but it makes player interaction much more of a hassle, and player interaction is what this server is mainly about.
Trying to roleplay with someone with hostile NPCs around? You'll have to balance typing with dodging and shooting.
Trying to have a good pvp encounter? The NPCs will influence the outcome.
Anyone who was around for the god-tier IMG NPCs in Tau-23 that had debs and class 9 guns will know why we don't have strong NPCs anymore.
(05-03-2015, 07:52 PM)boxcartenant Wrote: I understand that the moderators want this game experience to have a focus on player interaction, and that's fine and good. However, there should be areas where player interaction is more easy or more difficult, depending on each player's faction relationships. Wouldn't it make sense if it were "unwise" for two civilians to sit and chat in pirate space? Because right now, that's perfectly fine, and the only place where players have to be aware of their surroundings is at the far edge of the galaxy.
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Then, significantly reduce the frequency of AI encounters. Perhaps limit them entirely to encounters with AI who are flying patrol routs (if they aren't already. If they are already, then reduce AI respawn rate). This would make space feel more real, because, for example, buying an expensive radar would be imperative for smugglers. A person wanting to do an especially dangerous trade rout might even have to learn the AI patrol paths to protect himself (almost as if the player's ship were actually in a hostile part of space).
The only instance where your objection is relevant is when a player from faction A is having an encounter with a player from faction B in an area exclusively patrolled by NPCs from faction B. NPCs from faction C absolutely should interrupt your encounter if you're in their way. (e.g. If you're civilian, and you're encountering a police, you should have to move the encounter out of pirate space to stay safe.)
So, if the NPCs have fixed patrol routs, and you're concerned about your NPCs from your faction shooting the player you've encountered, then you could move your PVP encounter to a more neutral area. Anyway, if you're at war with faction B, then your allies just might shoot faction B people, and you would be wise in real life as well as in RP to move all pleasantries with the enemy to a discrete location.
(05-04-2015, 02:20 PM)SpaceTime Wrote: Jump Gate turrets should get a nerf imo.
Holy smokes, no. The last thing this game needs is less danger. If a jump gate is shooting you, it's because it's supposed to be a bulwark protecting its territory from your faction.
RE: NPCs kinda suck - Fluffyball - 05-04-2015
Let's make, for a week, Discovery: Dark Souls Edition.
RE: NPCs kinda suck - boxcartenant - 05-04-2015
(05-04-2015, 09:31 PM)Toris Gray Wrote: Let's make, for a week, Discovery: Dark Souls Edition.
lol! That would be awesome, but I want to point out that it's extreme. I'm not saying we should make it super-difficult to survive everywhere. I'm just saying there should be a reasonable gradient of difficulties across the universe, and slightly fewer NPC encounters.
When I see an NPC battle in space, where I should be saying, "Wow, a battle! I'm gonna go help my faction and earn some loot!" Instead, I'm thinking, "I could be getting this same experience from a chat-room and a discovery channel documentary." I walk boldly into space occupied by the mortal enemies of my way of life, because there are no consequences; only purposeless "bullets" whizzing around me like gnats.
Also, I just thought I'd throw this out there: space is empty. For real-life to even begin to approach the encounter-rate that we have in Freelancer, there'd have to be quadrillions of ships in our solar system.