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+--- Thread: ZOIs (/showthread.php?tid=13215)
ZOIs - Jinx - 10-22-2008
on a sidenote...
tenacity, - your reply is constructive and helpful - so i wonder why you just HAD to add
"I strongly recommend staying out of liberty (alaska excepted) though, both because a lot of OORP crap goes on there, and because of all the pvp whores."
as that comment works quite detrimental towards the otherwise reasonable pov that is down to your RP experience.
its a comment like
"Admin: Who is it reported? Lets see if I like them or not."
from akumibato.
both posts would have been very good - if it had not been for those comments that draw the quality of the posts down to a lower level. - and its comments like that that are definitely insulting and will cause a circle of flames going around the various players that support this side or the other.
ZOIs - farmerman - 10-22-2008
How exactly does ZoI get defined? I always thought it was basically where a character has a logical reason to be.
So for the Order, normally it would be in the Omicrons, but certainly there might be a time to go elsewhere? Wild threats in Rheinland for instance.
ZOIs - Jinx - 10-22-2008
a ZoI is sometimes translated as a Zone of interest - and sometimes as a zone of influence....
both terms include very different ideas. - a zone of interest is indeed a zone that a faction has ambitions to ... build a bridgehead, establish .... influence ( that is not yet present ) or is just - interested in....
so... a zone of interest for the order ( to be precise ) would indeed be ... tohoku, new york, newcastle - etc. even if no NPCs of the order are present...
why is it a zone of interest? - tohoku is a site of vast power - a place that was overwhelmed by the wild and taken over entirely - a center of power thta controlled a major part of the KNF - hence known as the corrupted KNF. - new york is a ZoI, cause the keepers have repeatedly attacked it - and where there are nomads - there is interest for the order. - newcastle hosts one of the ancient alien artifact places. - even if there are no order NPCs - it is of high interest.
but is it a zone of "influence"? - not really - not directly. - influence is achieved by being present - one way or another. now the game is not really as detailed as it should be to reflect it. - so ... just cause there are no order SHIPS - doesn t mean that there are no order AGENTS. - however... we cannot see them, and are victim to the fantasy of a few that write stories about it - producing the lore.
so the places i just named are no zones of influence per se. - only the lore can make them zones of influence.
now - its up to the players to determine whats roleplay and what is not. - can the order go to places they are interested in? - or can they only go to places they are influencial in?
edit: you can easier make up an interest in a place .... making up being influencial in a place is harder as its a much deeper state than interest.
and here is the problem of the idea of a zone of influence and roleplay on a individual basis...:
player 1 is a navy captain. - he knows the rules and knows his enemies. he has no duty in alaska or anywhere else - had not have to deal with the order or the nomads ( as the nomads have no "influence" in new york .... but maybe interest. - player 2 is order. - and he knows that the nomads ( keepers ) have raided new york several times...hence he considers new york to be interesting.
new york does not support any order NPCs - but to be safe - player 2 writes a thrilling story about agents and deals in the shades. - maybe involving informations bourght by the junkers - untill he built up a secret network of agents on manhattan surface ( mind, all those agents are no pilots - they are just agents that travel space anonymously in passenger transports ).
by doing that.... player 2 suddenly creates a zone of INFLUENCE - as all of the sudden.... order NPCs appear in new york. ( its roleplay - so yes, its possible and even plausible )
so - player 2 considers new york to be a zone of influence - cause he HAS influence... he has a story about the network, he does have influence in new york ... and he also proves the existance of order NPCs.
the problem is - player 1 might not have read the story ( which - for that matter is a blessing... cause knowledge would have been ooRP ) - but since player 1 likes the rules and hates having ooRP people around - he reports player 2 for doing business in new york ... sanction reason "out of his zone of influence".
and there lays the problem of all the ZoI issues... - is the RP we write overwriting the ZoI limitations? - how far does it go? - or are the rules overwriting the roleplay? - are there special cases? - how are those special cases considered.... . how much of it has to be shown ingame?
and after all - do the ZoI limitations make sense at all then?
taking the ZoI as a guideline might be the way to go. - but players shouldn t be sanctioned for being out of their ZoI... unless its "too much" - which is a very subjective term.
so when you see 3 osiris battleships in new york for no apparent reason - it would be "too much" for sure. if you see one osiris though... its too much for one - but not for another - so what you get is uncertainty.
ZOIs - Akumabito - 10-22-2008
' Wrote:"Admin: Who is it reported? Lets see if I like them or not."
from akumibato.
You forget that I have direct experience with this kind of admin and their sanctions.
As far as ZOI, it has to be predefined, you can't allow it to be up to the players otherwise there is no point to the ZOI restriction other than as I said before, a means to target sanctions toward individuals based on something other than fair and clear rules.
The first thing that should have been done when these additional more restrictive ID's were conceived was the ZOI list, since that is the core of these ID's. It needs to be defined now so people will know the true impact of these restrictions before they are imposed on the server, so that a real consensus as to their suitability can be reached.
ZOIs - Lucend - 10-22-2008
Thank you Jinx, for answering my question exactly and for getting to the baseline problem.
What would we ever do without you?
ZOIs - Carme - 10-25-2008
' Wrote:Have to have a damned good reason to go to Iota though, we really shouldnt be there without a large fleet due to the hazard of being the nomad home system.
Wrong, they have no currently existing home system, thats just where Keepers buy ships.
Those swarms of Gnome BBs are soo much lower challenge rating than some Scorps in O58
And they are trying to "Open a gate to their homeworld" in O58.
ZOIs - AdamantineFist - 10-25-2008
' Wrote:PS: Block member post option is awsomeIt is. I love it soooo much.
' Wrote:As a member of The Order could you not RP being anywhere, doing reconnaissance work as to the levels on infection prevalent in whatever area you are in?Yes, you can. Just make sure you play the part, and don't just go around pew-pewing things.
' Wrote:Wrong, they have no currently existing home system, thats just where Keepers buy ships.I think it's considered the Nomad home-system for all intents. Oh, and those Scorps are actually minor deities.
Those swarms of Gnome BBs are soo much lower challenge rating than some Scorps in O58
And they are trying to "Open a gate to their homeworld" in O58.
ZOIs - n00bl3t - 10-25-2008
' Wrote:Yes, you can. Just make sure you play the part, and don't just go around pew-pewing things.
Reconnaissance =/= "pew-pewing things". (Unless I am forced into PVP.)
ZOIs - Tenacity - 10-25-2008
Quote:on a sidenote...
tenacity, - your reply is constructive and helpful - so i wonder why you just HAD to add
"I strongly recommend staying out of liberty (alaska excepted) though, both because a lot of OORP crap goes on there, and because of all the pvp whores."
as that comment works quite detrimental towards the otherwise reasonable pov that is down to your RP experience.
its a comment like
"Admin: Who is it reported? Lets see if I like them or not."
from akumibato.
both posts would have been very good - if it had not been for those comments that draw the quality of the posts down to a lower level. - and its comments like that that are definitely insulting and will cause a circle of flames going around the various players that support this side or the other.
Only speaking from experience. I've noticed a significant rise in enjoyment of the mod, and an equally significant drop in frustration with people here, ever since I started avoiding new york like the plague =P
Quote:You forget that I have direct experience with this kind of admin and their sanctions.
yea, well, it isnt like you're not giving people a reason to hate you...
Quote:Wrong, they have no currently existing home system, thats just where Keepers buy ships.
Those swarms of Gnome BBs are soo much lower challenge rating than some Scorps in O58
And they are trying to "Open a gate to their homeworld" in O58.
Xerna is the current nomad 'home' planet in sirius, even the order should stay out of iota for RP reasons unless you're travelling in a large group.
ZOIs - n00bl3t - 10-25-2008
' Wrote:yea, well, it isnt like you're not giving people a reason to hate you...
You are going to hate someone for what they post on an internet forum?