+- Discovery Gaming Community (https://discoverygc.com/forums)
+-- Forum: Discovery General (https://discoverygc.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?fid=3)
+--- Forum: Discovery RP 24/7 General Discussions (https://discoverygc.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?fid=23)
+--- Thread: Blame the Admins (/showthread.php?tid=151979)
RE: Blame the Admins - Sombs - 07-19-2017
Hardlining doesn't get us anywhere.
RE: Blame the Admins - Alley - 07-19-2017
I doubt anyone here is (I hope) saying criticizing the staff is bad. Exchanging points of view in a community is crucial and really, you might as well not call it a community if communication is one-way. There has actually been significant improvements in that regard when it comes to the Moderation and Administration teams over the years, going from an absolute brick wall in 2008 (unless you had the right contacts) to something moderately interactive. Still not there, but it's something. The dev team as well has made a lot of progress as well since its inception, despite the recent complaints.
RE: Blame the Admins - Enkidu - 07-19-2017
(07-19-2017, 11:44 AM)Alley Wrote: I doubt anyone here is (I hope) saying criticizing the staff is bad. Exchanging points of view in a community is crucial and really, you might as well not call it a community if communication is one-way. There has actually been significant improvements in that regard when it comes to the Moderation and Administration teams over the years, going from an absolute brick wall in 2008 (unless you had the right contacts) to something moderately interactive. Still not there, but it's something. The dev team as well has made a lot of progress as well since its inception, despite the recent complaints.
Yes, it's getting better all the time. It's just our standards increase with what we're used to, quite often unreasonably. Remember how
NPC events went from the best thing ever to "good, but needs work" in a few months? We will always provide critique, but there's a linguistic distinction between critique and criticism.
Remember, we will always be in the armchair because we don't operate the controls ourselves.
RE: Blame the Admins - Croft - 07-19-2017
Almost everyone values constructive critisism, the issue usually stems from people not being able to give it either by way of frustration and anger or simple annoyance. For example as a Dev I hear a lot of variations of the phrase "You don't do anything" or "You don't listen" which can be quite tiresome when you've just spent the last hour editing/writing infocards, designing system maps or chatting with faction leaders.
Instead of saying "You don't do anything" it should be "I'm concerned that my idea hasn't been relayed/understood/acknowledged. Can you confirm that please?"
and instead of "You don't listen" it should be "I've noticed our/my suggestion/discussion hasn't been used in the new version. Could you explain why?"
Best way to make sure you're giving feedback and not just complaining, imagine saying what you've typed to the biggest meanest guy you've ever seen. If what you're about to post would get you a blackeye and a broken jaw, stop and rethink.
RE: Blame the Admins - Vendetta - 07-20-2017
It's really hard to take the staff seriously and not blame them for their own mistakes when 80% of them are the reason they end up in a position to be blamed/hated in the first place. The only admin worth a damn right now is St.Denis, and he receives flak for no reason, but don't let the others receiving flak deceive you. They have plenty of reason to be disliked/blamed for doing a poor job, otherwise people wouldn't be criticizing them on their flaws and mistakes.
Sure you might think they're just saying staff suck for the sake of being cool and going against what our small community considers to be authority, but I like many of the other people who have openly spoken out against gross misconduct have plenty of reason to dislike the administration team. Antonio is right and things really have gone downhill since "A Heavy Decision", but the problem existed long before that. The root cause is what your argument is based on: The admins are people too.
People aren't perfect, we get that. They make mistakes and errors and everyone knows you can't make everyone happy all the time. The smaller this place gets, the more people end up bumping elbows and arguing, and while the community looks bad for their behavior, the staff aren't perfect even when they're supposed to hold themselves to a higher standard than the rest of us lowly grey-named members.
There comes a point in a person's life where they make mistakes, own up to them and try to make things right. They try to fix the error they made and avoid doing it again to prevent the same problem from resurfacing days, weeks, months or even years later.
Sadly that isn't practiced by the staff.
I can understand being put in a position of power and being flooded with all the garbage the community has to throw at you and each other or being tempted to play favorites, but that doesn't excuse the conduct expressed by specific members of the staff directed towards the community. Be it public or private, you're still an administrator, and what you do or say stays with you wherever you go. Things like using admin commands to avoid interactions that you didn't like, threatening people with bans because you can't be bothered to look at the bigger picture, ignoring blatant rule violations because of concerns that it might politically destabilize the community, giving people a false sense of immunity, to former members of the staff coming to the rescue of their friends and pulling them out of sanction-related situations. I still have PMs of a particular former green contacting me whenever I had sufficient evidence to file a report on someone, to circumvent the processing of a sanction and protect their buddies because they have the ability to, or outright ignoring sanctions with more than enough evidence to see something done.
Laziness is not something the staff should show. If the job you volunteered for is too hard, then why are you still trying to do it? I've heard it all before: We don't get paid, we're players too, we have lives. It doesn't make a difference because like you and me, we also have lives but still manage to find the time to open the forums and write long-winded posts in the roleplay sections, general discussion or even flood. A post is still a post, whether you're debating the fate of someone or writing an awesome story. So why is it that the staff can make these excuses and no one bats an eye? People are too blinded by the color green to see past their status and look at their behavior.
![[Image: 3IVqBEI.png]](http://i.imgur.com/3IVqBEI.png)
Many former members of the staff have stated that the existing team could use a fresh wipe. They became fed up with how poorly the community was being managed, and despite their best efforts to get people to budge, they failed. Shortly after, they left. Many in the community have been faced with similar frustration with the staff's misconduct and poor choices. They leave. They want no part of a place that's being run into the ground. Certain people get away with so much bad behavior that it's outright astonishing they haven't been slapped so hard their head spun on the spot, and whether it's because they've got friends in high places or they've got the server by the balls, no one should ever be above the rules and be able to avoid punishment, and the neglect by the staff to actively take part in resolving these issues instead of supervising people arguing in some idiotic Skype chat that goes no where is slowly but surely killing off people's motivation to play this game.
Like it or not, the game and community come hand-in-hand. So long as the staff are the way they are, this place will never see change.
RE: Blame the Admins - Sciamach - 07-20-2017
Friendly reminder that the staff bastilled the entirety of the Cross cap-fleet for literally no reason after a siege.
We filed the proper posts for sieging, we did everything we were supposed to inRP, and we literally had an admin on-site telling us what we were doing was OK - and we still got bastilled. 2 of my biggest activity contributors got so frustrated because of this that they stopped playing the game, and another 2 rookies that were being groomed either lost ships or didn't get them back until the staff were poked mercilessly. Personally I was so frustrated with the whole situation that I didn't touch the game for over a week, and pretty much stopped logging regularly altogether afterwards.
Was this action on the part of the staff the sole reason for Cross's downfall? Absolutely not, that was squarely on me not having the time/effort to fix enough things to push a broken concept through to being actually well fleshed out and implemented. However, if I had to point to why I myself stopped playing, the removal of major lore segments that cost me the basis for an SRP that I'd been working on for months, plus the incident mentioned above were the two primary factors that led to my departure - special mention going to the utterly cancerous tumors that were some of the community's hardline problem-children for making being around here insufferable (looking around, this is still a problem that hasn't been addressed by the way.)
To get back to the point: not all complaints levied at the staff are as world-shattering as they're purported to be - people around here are way to quick to whine about literally anything- but there are legitimate concerns that need to be addressed, that never were and continue to not be to this day. When I personally got shafted twice by the staff's inability to make logical, sound decisions, I really didn't see the point in trying to even interact with the community anymore when I was getting nothing out of it, and the very people who were supposed to be facilitating the experience were too busy to administrate properly and/or making major decisions that effect the climate of a game they haven't touched in years.
I'm obviously not going to mention any names, but these people are why I quit Discovery, and I really don't see myself coming back unless a lot changes. I'm only making this post because Ace told me of it's existence, and I felt I should point out that, as Tal likes to say: "your actions have consequences", and the staff never seem to realize just how much impact their horrible decision-making really has on the people trying their damnedest to improve the community. Should the staff be railed-upon constantly? No, but there is literally no accountability to the people that can utterly ruin the experience for the lot of us if they make a wrong move, and frankly, wrong moves are made a lot in Discovery. Staff or otherwise.
TL;DR something needs to change, has needed to for a while, and knowing how appallingly things can be handled around here: probably wont ever be until the community has fully and thoroughly died.
I'll be returning to my grave now.
RE: Blame the Admins - Goldberg - 07-20-2017
Every 3 months we get one of this thread, and People are still complaining about the same stuff again and again.
I stopped complaining, because I'm kinda happy that I can still Play the game, and as Long as they don't remove the mining and trading part, I will not send any complaints towards the admin Team.
TL
R We got it, there is no Need to create threads like this over and over again.
RE: Blame the Admins - Vendetta - 07-20-2017
(07-20-2017, 05:13 PM)Goldberg Wrote: Every 3 months we get one of this thread, and People are still complaining about the same stuff again and again.
I stopped complaining, because I'm kinda happy that I can still Play the game, and as Long as they don't remove the mining and trading part, I will not send any complaints towards the admin Team.
TL
The more you ignore the problem, the worse it's going to get. Eventually there won't be a game to play.
RE: Blame the Admins - Goldberg - 07-20-2017
(07-20-2017, 05:26 PM)Vendetta Wrote:(07-20-2017, 05:13 PM)Goldberg Wrote: Every 3 months we get one of this thread, and People are still complaining about the same stuff again and again.
I stopped complaining, because I'm kinda happy that I can still Play the game, and as Long as they don't remove the mining and trading part, I will not send any complaints towards the admin Team.
TL
The more you ignore the problem, the worse it's going to get. Eventually there won't be a game to play.
I get your point, but I'm not sure if poking the Admins every two days about "problems" is a good idea.
Sometimes we just need to accept the situation and wait, maybe they are already working on a concept to fix this problems, because if I were a admin, you guys would seriously annoy me with this threads every two months.
RE: Blame the Admins - Technogeist - 07-20-2017
(07-20-2017, 05:26 PM)Vendetta Wrote: Eventually there won't be a game to play.
Damn this game to the void, it deserves not to live.