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+--- Thread: Echo Corps | Feedback (/showthread.php?tid=161569)
RE: Echo Corps | Feedback - moebus - 06-02-2018
Interesting concept, I am not sure disco is the right place to bring it, but I am curious to see how you will roleplay it.
The Seraphim could potentially work with the Echo group.
RE: Echo Corps | Feedback - Echo Corps - 06-02-2018
(06-02-2018, 12:51 PM)Sombra Hookier Wrote: I hope your write-up doesn't cut into what BAF had in mind about the Fearless. https://discoverygc.com/forums/showthread.php?tid=149390&pid=1882236#pid1882236
Maybe you can talk to BAF about it.
While I was aware of the wreck of the Fearless, I was not aware of that particular roleplay around its recovery. The ship itself would still be there, and I will make no claims of what might or might not be onboard it, as to truly vanish, they would need to have left a wreck behind.
Quote:Peronally, I don't know what to think about an organization of badass shadow Zoner with 200+ years of history that found all the big secrets of the Omicrons before most other people and then just remained silent about it. It sort of sounds like the Order before it was known as the Order (and before it was known as mass-murdering terrorists that threaten to blow up cities with nuclear weapons). I get the idea why it is using Zoner IFF and ID, although I don't know if it matches too well. I guess the choice is merely based on a compromise.
I can understand this, and if the order was an unknown entity, I would probably have chosen them. Zoners however, do fit the bill for the number one requirement, and that is being able to mix in. It's a compromise, but one forced by the way Freelancer lore and story has moved. I'd rather have a somewhat jagged fit with the Zoner ID for a while, than being outright contradictory with an Order ID forever.
Quote:What I don't like is the infiltration aspect. That is because such things are very tricky with this community. It is very hard to do, and certain order-related faction characters are highly disliked for not just having tricked the inRP characters but also the ooRP people behind the characters. Best example here is the administration of Freeport 10, who, directly after getting the position as administrator, was revealed to be an agent of <O>, which is inRP okay, but ooRP a rather crappy move towards the CoF back then. I hope such things won't find repetition with EC.
I'm relying on the community for this one. Recently we've seen a surge of defections and leaks for rp, which happens, but has caused issues due to oorp agreements with them. I don't want that. I'm not looking for critical information or knowledge. I'm looking for community members, which might decide that one of their characters could be someone who might drop a tip off here, or let a word slip there. Nothing actionable by itself, but something that might cause something actionable to happen.
Quote:The other way around, I don't like the Manx story. Over and over again people come up with ways to identify incubi/infected people by remote scans and what not. I have no idea where this attempt to power-up characters and ships with that ability comes from, but it annoys me. I personally think the means of detecting nomad infiltrators should be very, very, very limited and more based on cleverness than on ranged technology or in this case, cats. I do like the idea of mentioning the manx, however, since Sirius generally lacks information and detail on flora and fauna, with one of the very few exceptions being things like the Pirasharq of Nuremberg, or the meanwhile-established Chiwi bird on Curacao, or Core's description of Nauru's untamable wildlife.
I can understand this. And to be honest, the fact I chose a cat for this was more as a reflection of the people in the organization than of the cats abilities. Its the idea that they think they have an edge because of it. One EC might recognize another EC because of the very specific breed of cat, and suddenly know they're not alone. The other aspect to the cat is that its a direct representation of how methods can and are flawed. Any cat will hiss at someone it doesn't like, making it harder to be certain. Regardless, the detection of infiltrators I will drop, as as cute as it is to think of a Manx being the sole method of detection available to the group, it would cut down on potential future roleplay with said individuals.
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Quote:I'm also not sure whether a hidden station in some uncharted region makes it less far-fetched. Why not basing on a station or planet that makes it less obvious and less edgy? The Fearless was probably not the only ship out there to roam around in uncharted territory. Space is big. And there are many space-faring people in Sirius.
Space is big, and while I'm sure there would be more ships roaming around and exploring, I like to believe that before returning to normal space, the Fearless got lost. Planets draw attention, and governments ask questions. As a whole, the topic is somewhat harder to justify, regardless of whether its a small facility on a uncharted planet or a hidden station. As such, and in light of said feedback, it's been removed.
Quote:All in all, I have really mixed feelings about this. The Echo Corps is written as a high-tech, super-influental (but also not) group of badass-Zoners that are doing what Order should do, having a solid, unbuckling history for more than 200 years and are described as pretty much untouchable, basing themselves in an uncharted system somewhere out there. It's... edgy. It sounds overpowered in terms of traits and reminds me of the Vergil I-can-access-everything stuff, Nomad illusion/mindcontrol, Blix-impostors and other mystery stuff that is made to make oneself look more interesting, which backfires extremely in this community of people who prefer to interact with characters that are at max as powerful as the ingame abilities can reflect.
They are high-tech, but thats a result of my belief that any group focused on remaining hidden would devote a significant amount of effort towards research. With the recent inclusion of the EW tech, this is partially represented in game as having military grade ships, but the largest impact from being high tech would be the ideal of proper space age technologies present in science fiction, and somewhat lacking in discovery.
Base reference was removed, so thats not a concern.
The influential part is tricky. Largely because it relies on the community. They've failed in their mission once already, having been unable to prevent the Nomad War when Rheinland opened the Pygar vaults. The level of influence they would have now as an organization is reliant on players outside the faction allowing for things to happen. If one of the house governments were to say that having one of their ministers aides as an informant was ok, then that would be what happens. But it's not going to be a situation of "Yeah we heard about that from one of our informants." The two hundred year long history is perhaps the part of this that I like the most, from an unbiased view. It's an admittance that they've existed, been around and done stuff, and then had the crashing realization that it wasn't enough. For all intents and purposes, if they were to die out, or be exterminated, not much would change lore wise, because so few would have known about them that it wouldn't make an impact on the story progression. Untouchable is a bit strong, but again, I believe that the people who would find out about them, are the same people who are either trusted, or wouldn't want it spread. A freelancer might cross paths with EC a hundred times and never realize, while LSF might be hunting that same echo. Despite elaborate cover stories and disguises, they're still only human, and humans make mistakes.
Quote:Sorry for not finding more neutral words, but I feel like this is not a faction I would like to interact with, by the description of it. Doesn't mean I won't give it a shot, but not without an uncomfortable feeling.
I hope we can change your mind about that.
RE: Echo Corps | Feedback - Stefan - 06-02-2018
(06-02-2018, 01:30 PM)Sombra Hookier Wrote: Transparency is the best you can do in this community, Anton. It is one thing to trick inRP characters. It is another thing to trick the people behind the characters - the latter is something you should never aim for in this community, because it WILL backfire.
This.
RE: Echo Corps | Feedback - Thunderer - 06-02-2018
(06-02-2018, 01:39 PM)Echo Corps Wrote: While I was aware of the wreck of the Fearless, I was not aware of that particular roleplay around its recovery. The ship itself would still be there, and I will make no claims of what might or might not be onboard it, as to truly vanish, they would need to have left a wreck behind.
The wreck is still there. Only the cargo's been salvaged. Do with the hulk whatever you like.
RE: Echo Corps | Feedback - LaWey - 06-02-2018
(06-02-2018, 01:30 PM)Sombra Hookier Wrote: Transparency is the best you can do in this community, Anton. It is one thing to trick inRP characters. It is another thing to trick the people behind the characters - the latter is something you should never aim for in this community, because it WILL backfire.
i didn't mean fully cover true things of course,its unfair, but at least make it not SOOO transparent, it hard to play illuminati with full transparency. Players are not professional actors in most, hard to divide inRP and ooRP by straight border.
Btw maybe making transparent concept then work through freelancers will work? Just some tricks ooRP should stay, this make immersion more full. At least for me. Im not about make undercover cyberings to force RP and trick players, but at least make some things in surprise way. This is why gamemasters keep plot undercovered.
RE: Echo Corps | Feedback - Echo Corps - 06-02-2018
(06-02-2018, 01:22 PM)Nodoka Hanamura Wrote: -snip-
Most of what you've raised has been covered in your own words of being covert. The Order and Core are both treated as unfriendly, just like the Outcasts. If had wanted an ID that could be used to engage all three, the Corsair ID exists. Zoner ID can not shoot anything except Nomads first, and this is one of the reasons it was chosen. If EC is shooting anything else, they got shot at first. Swing that how you like, but the ingame limitation is there. Order, Core are explained why they're unfriendly. Outcasts as well. Zoners are a diverse group, intended to be varying groups of people that only have not wanting to live under house law in common. If I lead a group that is anti-order and you lead a group that is pro-order, all that differs is my group doesnt like the people you like.
(06-02-2018, 01:25 PM)Anton Okunev Wrote: I feel there good idea, but you made mistake reveal all in write up. This is would've much more interesting if you have made write-up in way like full legal commercial corp which covert intelligence operations. Like low-rank members just join it, freelancers work for it, but from some moment, they begin realise they became a agent, pawn and cannot leave it.
I feel more good would've make only allusions on conspiracy in first write up, and begin slowly reveal it inRP way after some time. Dont know, how you will play it now, because its really like another Order/Aux things. But anyway i will look how far you'll go, it's interesting.
Flat no. People hate being lied to, and more so when its something they put effort into.
(06-02-2018, 01:32 PM)moebus Wrote: Interesting concept, I am not sure disco is the right place to bring it, but I am curious to see how you will roleplay it.
The Seraphim could potentially work with the Echo group.
We definitely could.
RE: Echo Corps | Feedback - Echo Corps - 06-02-2018
(06-02-2018, 01:43 PM)Thunderer Wrote:(06-02-2018, 01:39 PM)Echo Corps Wrote: While I was aware of the wreck of the Fearless, I was not aware of that particular roleplay around its recovery. The ship itself would still be there, and I will make no claims of what might or might not be onboard it, as to truly vanish, they would need to have left a wreck behind.
The wreck is still there. Only the cargo's been salvaged. Do with the hulk whatever you like.
As I said, we'd not even touch it. That would reveal us. Much love for the Bretonian Government
RE: Echo Corps | Feedback - Emperor Tekagi - 06-02-2018
Did I just seriously read something about mutated cats able to detect telekinesis? Or out of thin air statements such as "high sum investments into Stabiline research"?
Not to mention that Nomads weren't really roaming around back then at all. It was human interference which caused few of them to leave stasis, resulting in more and more to awake.
This writeup feels weird, it bends lores here and there quite a lot, makes things up out of thin air. I am not even complaining about the secrecy for 200 years.
Also you can ask just as nicely as you want, some people will take a tag as a tag inRP.
But I guess we will see how things will go ingame. Could still be interesting.
RE: Echo Corps | Feedback - Skorak - 06-02-2018
The lore stance on that seems to have changed. Since the extended intro is canon, nomads were awake the whole time.
RE: Echo Corps | Feedback - Nodoka Hanamura - 06-02-2018
>The Extended Intro is canon
When did this change happen?
Also, should I bring out the list of reasons why the extended intro makes no sense?