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+--- Thread: Super-weapons(?) (/showthread.php?tid=185119)
RE: Super-weapons(?) - Misfit - 12-19-2020
(12-18-2020, 07:34 PM)Binski Wrote: devs always go for the stats of equipment, instead of jacking up the cost!
This makes these superweapons only available to large factions who have literally tens if not hundreds of billions of credits stashed away and makes it impossible for smaller factions that might actually have a reason to use them (think of small pirate groups using them to drive off a siege of a dozen or so lawful caps for instance). There is no real way to regulate how many of these weapons get out there and who they go to without making them something you have to SRP or put in a request for, which kinda defeats the purpose of having them if you aren't able to get your hands on one when you need it.
RE: Super-weapons(?) - Binski - 12-19-2020
(12-19-2020, 02:12 AM)Misfit Wrote:(12-18-2020, 07:34 PM)Binski Wrote: devs always go for the stats of equipment, instead of jacking up the cost!
This makes these superweapons only available to large factions who have literally tens if not hundreds of billions of credits stashed away and makes it impossible for smaller factions that might actually have a reason to use them (think of small pirate groups using them to drive off a siege of a dozen or so lawful caps for instance). There is no real way to regulate how many of these weapons get out there and who they go to without making them something you have to SRP or put in a request for, which kinda defeats the purpose of having them if you aren't able to get your hands on one when you need it.
That's not what I mean. Cloaks for instance, could have simply had the value of the commodities to build them go up. Meaning a light cloak on average is around 110-130 million, but as they wind up filling the server, the cost can easily go up to 200 or 250, and a similar jump for the rest, for a while at least.
As to the super weapon idea, I'd support making them buildable at a POB, and require a certain amount of scidata at least, perhaps among other commodities. To me, anyone would be able to get their hands on them eventually.
Thats where I don't get most complaints. No one cares that to get that pvp advantage in most cases required a lot of work. Generally, adding and having more options is the better approach, disco is the only place I've seen that removes stuff that didnt need to be removed. Which is why I usually believe that a dev simply wants a likely obstacle to them out of the way. and aren't thinking of what's best for the mod.
Besides, NEMP's were best as a concept as a pvp weapon anyways. I couldn't have cared less about events. They would have best been used against bases. Again, its the value that determines the frequency of its use. What we need are some kind of battle bases or a player built weapons platform, and a mini-NEMP that works on them to balance it out.
Instead of the 'no, just no (argument)' that is typical of this place, think about it. If you want less to do here gameplay wise, its sucking the life out of the place. Everyone cutting corners for themselves has worn down the game over the years. People should want sieges and action here, outside of events like it was years ago. Instead of acting like its a burden, it should be encouraged to do more here, not less. Build a base, claim some territory. This whole server is a huge environment people would fight over, if they had the right stuff to do it and it were actually allowed/encouraged. Most of the server environment (planets) goes unused.
RE: Super-weapons(?) - LuckyOne - 12-19-2020
Binsky, while I appreciate the persistence of your firm beliefs over the years I fear you're preaching to the wrong crowd here.
Let's face it, Disco is set in its' own ways and any attempt of an initiative to overhaul the whole POB / ingame gameplay as an alternative to Forum / Discord politics is doomed to fail.
Most of the people left here have little time for grinding, and the flow of new faces has mostly slowed to a trickle.
It's probably gonna take a new game for that, have you considered joining any newer alternatives ?
If the devs miracoulously decide to do a 180 turn and make Disco more about strategy with actual well thought gameplay mechanics and less about PVP / Forum PVP / RP / Special events Blues hunting I think introducing Pay2Win super weapons is a horrible idea without a proper economy / player balances reset.
That said, I believe there actually are ways to properly balance such weapons by thinking hard about cap / snub roles. Meaning, the weapons would be balanced, but only within a proper fleet composition. Basically, a weapon with limited ammo that would turn the ship carrying it into sort of a "long range sniper glass cannon" that needs to rely on other ships to cover it, but dies quite easily if focused / in a duel.
RE: Super-weapons(?) - sindroms - 12-19-2020
Flagships.
Big ol pinatas, maybe make them undockable and make them drop something neat when they explode.
EDIT: One per official faction, I mean.
RE: Super-weapons(?) - Binski - 12-20-2020
(12-19-2020, 10:02 PM)LuckyOne Wrote: Binsky, while I appreciate the persistence of your firm beliefs over the years I fear you're preaching to the wrong crowd here.
Let's face it, Disco is set in its' own ways and any attempt of an initiative to overhaul the whole POB / ingame gameplay as an alternative to Forum / Discord politics is doomed to fail.
Most of the people left here have little time for grinding, and the flow of new faces has mostly slowed to a trickle.
It's probably gonna take a new game for that, have you considered joining any newer alternatives ?
Yeah I know its probably long off, but I like to be on record, not everyone agrees with these decisions. But I don't really want a total POB overhaul. As a side issue, a player built WP would be nice for unlawfuls at least to try to control turf, etc, keep the ball rolling. Wouldn't even have to be dockable, just a block with some weapons that can be destroyed, with something like a 100 mil hp. If they could be repairable by repair ship, that makes it more plausible. Something to scout for, look out for, need a cap or a big bomb for.
I don't really see it as a sudden reason for everyone do go out and grind, those that could would. The way I see it is, not as many people come to or cling to a mod with less stuff to grind for, less involvement, less options, and a community that discourages certain activity that is actually totally logical for a place like this. I've considered many other places, I'm sure I'll get there eventually. This place is about all a 'Knight of the Potato' like myself can make it to for the time being.
(12-19-2020, 10:02 PM)LuckyOne Wrote: If the devs miracoulously decide to do a 180 turn and make Disco more about strategy with actual well thought gameplay mechanics and less about PVP / Forum PVP / RP / Special events Blues hunting I think introducing Pay2Win super weapons is a horrible idea without a proper economy / player balances reset.
Even the player built WP would be a sweet thing to have in there, and wouldn't really turn the game into full on strategy. It would more so be about using them to section off your own little empire or space nation, and have some real leverage. I'd picture them used by unlawfuls to be dropped near jumpgates to try to control turf. Just to be a pain or make a statement, or be like an act of terrorism. Like a group such as the Liberty Insurgency. Why would they not want to try to cut off a jumpgate, make the navy react? Or block jumpholes, try to carve out their own space more. I know so many sweat over that but really the place is dead most of the time otherwise, when it was way more alive when people did stuff like that.
(12-19-2020, 10:02 PM)LuckyOne Wrote: That said, I believe there actually are ways to properly balance such weapons by thinking hard about cap / snub roles. Meaning, the weapons would be balanced, but only within a proper fleet composition. Basically, a weapon with limited ammo that would turn the ship carrying it into sort of a "long range sniper glass cannon" that needs to rely on other ships to cover it, but dies quite easily if focused / in a duel.
That is literally all I want. It doesn't have to kill everyone all at once or even 5 guys, but to deal some decent damage, be more than a regular torp but still be a super torp worth building special.
Something with area damage. So if you flak it, it doesn't deflect, it goes off, and if you are still too close, you may take the damage. Only if you can take it out as far out as possible would you totally avoid it. That way its rarely a waste, and doesn't totally guarantee loss right away for either side.
(12-19-2020, 10:28 PM)sindroms Wrote: Flagships.
Big ol pinatas, maybe make them undockable and make them drop something neat when they explode.
EDIT: One per official faction, I mean.
That's not a bad idea either. Might be good for mini-events. Any way to make such a thing drop a CAU8? Maybe make it so there's a few hours or a day its set out, and if destroyed, drops something big. If it holds out for the time, the defending faction gets the item.
RE: Super-weapons(?) - The_Godslayer - 12-20-2020
(12-18-2020, 07:34 PM)Binski Wrote: Bombing enemy fleets with super bombs is boring to you? Paying millions for paint jobs or unique lighting effects is what I consider boring. I like the option to be there for sure, so why not both?
Both are super boring. More than half of the playerbase has a saturated economy. You could jack the price up to 50 billions and they'd be able to by 100 of them. Sci-data is an even dumber concept. A mechanic that caters ONLY to the people who don't have a life, a job, or a significant other, and therefore have thousands of hours on end to mine sci-data. Most people DO only log on for a quick fight or interaction when they have time. WE ALL HAVE LIVES. ACTUAL OTHER BREATHING HUMANS TO TAKE CARE OF. We play Disco to take the edge off when we get home, or before we go out. Having a "go fuck yourself" bomb that will just deny that would make the community a lot more toxic. Just cause you can no-life for 6 days in a row to be able to afford a "I'm stronger than you" button in an old game doesn't mean that you have some kind of innate right to basically tell other people "you can't play the game anymore". And then everyone wonders why the Forums are where the activity is. Hmm, it's not like there's a group of 20 or so people that throw battleships at everything that's logged on.
(12-18-2020, 07:34 PM)Binski Wrote: To me its that exact attitude that helps keep the server in a lower state of life, and always has. Its simply a fun and enticing concept (to prospective players) who havent been here yet to pick up the bad habits of those who try to stop other players from doing...anything that works against them.
Check your ego. You're not the only person who's bad at PvP. You're not the only person who claims to "work for the poor newbies". You're not the only person who's been caught in a rut. You're not the only person who's ego is bigger than their common sense. I spent a good hour screaming at some of the first players that took me in when I realized just how bad I was at PvP. Find Nepo and Luca and the old Commune boys and ask them about me and my "Ammo Only" stage. You, among many, are not a benevolent god of ideals. Remember that you're only human, and so is everyone else.
(12-18-2020, 07:34 PM)Binski Wrote: My argument is, ignore the contrarians please! NEMP's were only removed to spare inconvenience to the impatient, who seem to only log for pvp or sieges but refuse to accept some risk that they may get beaten by a surprise, one that someone worked hard for.
Afk shooting an anomaly is not hard work. Its right click. Hard work is the training it takes to get good at 3D flowing combat. It's not a "surprise that someone worked hard for." It's a cheep trick for people who can't accept that they have to put effort, not time, into the game. You seem to refuse to accept a few thousand defeats in conn to get good enough to hold your own in a fight. NEMP's were removed because they're a gimmick, a joke, and not even a funny one at that. Again, check your ego, and at this point your priorities too.
RE: Super-weapons(?) - Binski - 12-20-2020
(12-20-2020, 07:16 PM)The_Godslayer Wrote:(12-18-2020, 07:34 PM)Binski Wrote: Bombing enemy fleets with super bombs is boring to you? Paying millions for paint jobs or unique lighting effects is what I consider boring. I like the option to be there for sure, so why not both?
Both are super boring. More than half of the playerbase has a saturated economy. You could jack the price up to 50 billions and they'd be able to by 100 of them. Sci-data is an even dumber concept. A mechanic that caters ONLY to the people who don't have a life, a job, or a significant other, and therefore have thousands of hours on end to mine sci-data. Most people DO only log on for a quick fight or interaction when they have time. WE ALL HAVE LIVES. ACTUAL OTHER BREATHING HUMANS TO TAKE CARE OF. We play Disco to take the edge off when we get home, or before we go out. Having a "go ***** yourself" bomb that will just deny that would make the community a lot more toxic. Just cause you can no-life for 6 days in a row to be able to afford a "I'm stronger than you" button in an old game doesn't mean that you have some kind of innate right to basically tell other people "you can't play the game anymore". And then everyone wonders why the Forums are where the activity is. Hmm, it's not like there's a group of 20 or so people that throw battleships at everything that's logged on.
If the economy is over saturated, all the more reason to keep reasons to consume in the mod. I loved the sicdata addition, as after years of the same old grind it was nice to have something new to do. But in regards to time to devote to the server, that's too bad. Its always been so for every online game that those with the time typically have the high ground. If you don't have time for more in-depth involvement, fine, but the true fault is in not accepting that. Some play to take the edge off, some played here for years for participation. If you want a low intensity involvement, that's on you, it shouldn't everyone's problem. I do have much time at the moment but little drive. But I worked for years in the same boat, and accepted my limitations as my problem.
(12-20-2020, 07:16 PM)The_Godslayer Wrote:(12-18-2020, 07:34 PM)Binski Wrote: To me its that exact attitude that helps keep the server in a lower state of life, and always has. Its simply a fun and enticing concept (to prospective players) who havent been here yet to pick up the bad habits of those who try to stop other players from doing...anything that works against them.
Check your ego. You're not the only person who's bad at PvP. You're not the only person who claims to "work for the poor newbies". You're not the only person who's been caught in a rut. You're not the only person who's ego is bigger than their common sense. I spent a good hour screaming at some of the first players that took me in when I realized just how bad I was at PvP. Find Nepo and Luca and the old Commune boys and ask them about me and my "Ammo Only" stage. You, among many, are not a benevolent god of ideals. Remember that you're only human, and so is everyone else.
Its about having an option to allow for far more variation in the outcomes of situations, not just a pvp 1up. I'd love to get philosophical with you over God and Humanity, but its not that deep or egotistical to question the logic behind decisions here. I wouldn't go slaying any egos if I were you, you seem to suffer from the same affliction...godslayer.
(12-20-2020, 07:16 PM)The_Godslayer Wrote:(12-18-2020, 07:34 PM)Binski Wrote: My argument is, ignore the contrarians please! NEMP's were only removed to spare inconvenience to the impatient, who seem to only log for pvp or sieges but refuse to accept some risk that they may get beaten by a surprise, one that someone worked hard for.
Afk shooting an anomaly is not hard work. Its right click. Hard work is the training it takes to get good at 3D flowing combat. It's not a "surprise that someone worked hard for." It's a cheep trick for people who can't accept that they have to put effort, not time, into the game. You seem to refuse to accept a few thousand defeats in conn to get good enough to hold your own in a fight. NEMP's were removed because they're a gimmick, a joke, and not even a funny one at that. Again, check your ego, and at this point your priorities too.
To me this is the exact irrational (illogical) contrarianism I'm talking about. Scidata mining is easy once you find an anomaly. Sometimes its easy, or you spend 45 minutes going in circles. It takes a long time to make 1000 units, more than enough time to be pirated or policed. What possible reason could there be to fight or suppress it? You don't afk shoot to mine scidata. You have to watch your shots as to not use too much ammo per anomaly. You have to be careful and work at it the whole time.
NEMP's were a sweet concept that was fought and killed by the very pvpwhores who cling to conn instead of spending time in the RP environment. They couldn't handle losing to someone who put more time into their choices. They diminish the value of actions on the server to keep their lives easier at the expense of the functioning of the server.
How about this, give me the names of all of your transports, and we'll try another form of pvp, in the RP environment.
Your concern over my ego is touching but I'm doing just fine. Its not my ego you should be worried about, its my Id.
Reminds me of one of my favourite movies. Probably one of the best movies ever made, and after color was added its beautiful! Most scifi of the 60's and 70's took a lot from...Forbidden Planet (1956). I bring it up because its actually a very deep movie about the capabilities of the mind and technology. I highly reccomend!
RE: Super-weapons(?) - The_Godslayer - 12-21-2020
(12-20-2020, 08:54 PM)Binski Wrote: How about this, give me the names of all of your transports, and we'll try another form of pvp, in the RP environment.
SGN>Ghods_Demi and |\/|-Diler.Inomarki
Come at me, coward.
RE: Super-weapons(?) - Saronsen - 12-21-2020
if i see you guys doing something cringe im going to Hellfire you off the server
RE: Super-weapons(?) - The_Godslayer - 12-21-2020
Sorry dad. He was testing me. You act up, you get smacked up.