+- Discovery Gaming Community (https://discoverygc.com/forums)
+-- Forum: Discovery General (https://discoverygc.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?fid=3)
+--- Forum: Discovery RP 24/7 General Discussions (https://discoverygc.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?fid=23)
+--- Thread: To snub or to cap. (/showthread.php?tid=185995)
RE: To snub or to cap. - Val - 02-02-2021
Caps and snubs are two different worlds. Some will prefer snubs over caps and the opposite. This has the advantage of satisfying most people's tastes.
Both snubs and caps require skill. This is an undeniable fact. However, there are again some differences between caps and snubs. On caps, your equipment will have more impact on the final result of a match than on snubs. Careful what what equipment means, however. The most relevant equipment is certainly the armor and yet, this is not always true. The very fundamental difference between a cau6 and a cau8 is that the player owning a cau6 will lose against a player of equal skill, flying the same ship class with the same equipment, but who owns a cau8.
Impossible to talk equipment without talking about the codenames, or the codenamess as I like to call them. On battleships and certainly battlecruisers, codenames somewhat give you more versability, but never will compensate your potential lack of skill. Having and using codenames won't make you stronger in any way. Codenames perform very well in a limited and precise area of the PvP world of caps (tanking, artillery etc), while the "normal" weapons are more versatile, more "general" in the way that they don't shine in a very particular area, but a bit in all of them, with of course the purpose of which they were initially designed for.
Note here the paradox. I said above that codenames give you more versability (well, especially on heavy battleships that is) while normal guns are more versatile than codenames. Understand that the codenames give your ship versability, while normal guns are versatile in their design. And the latter will often make the difference in a lot of situations. That's the demonstration that normal guns > codenames on a performance/weapon cost/possibilities basis.
TL;DR: Equipment plays a role. But only a role, and not all of them!
PvP wise, caps have groupfights and duels. The first one is certainly the most interesting for many reasons. One of them is that it allows not really experienced players to actually do something and participate in a significant way during the battle. The controversial tactic that consists to cruise on your opponent is certainly the best example.
Duels are certainly the PvP aspect where the skill gap between average and very experienced cap players is the most visible. If you wish to compare the size of the skill gap between average and pro players on snubs and caps, then the gap is bigger on snubs. Nevertheless, there are some and perhaps cruel exceptions. One extremely experienced cap player is perfectly able to win against an average/above average player without taking a single hull damage during the duel. This is even more cruel when the average player can use double firepower.
How did that happen? @Jeter.Leo gave a part of the answer. "Techniques and Intelligence". I will add three more words: Curiosity, Imagination, Experience. Be curious. Be curious about what you fly, curious about the ship design, the weapons, the tactics and methods used by your friends and opponents, your environment. The list isn't exhaustive, of course. But your curiosity will fuel your imagination that plays an extremely important role on both caps and snubs. Your imagination will allow you to find, create, imagine new techniques. And this will enrich your experience and knowledge. With that, your opponent will quickly feel that a real intelligence is at the command of your ship. Oh and let's forget AI based weapons. This isn't intelligence, but programming. Something really pathetic when you think about it.
RE: To snub or to cap. - Lucas - 02-02-2021
Snub or noob
RE: To snub or to cap. - Val - 02-02-2021
(02-02-2021, 10:39 AM)Lucas Wrote: Snub or noob
Like @Thunderer used to say: "Caps are snubs for people not afraid to get it"!
RE: To snub or to cap. - Czechmate - 02-02-2021
Snubs = more fun duels, repetitive team fights
Caps = boring drawn out duels, strategic and unique fleet fights
Conclusion = delete conn
RE: To snub or to cap. - Felipe - 02-02-2021
(02-02-2021, 02:17 AM)Groshyr Wrote: I am not an owner of a high-end pc so I can't have 155 fps for comfortable snub combat, and therefore - caps. As well, more forgivable for mistakes and the lesser gap between the skill of players
(02-02-2021, 03:33 AM)Shimamori Wrote: 300+ ping on permanent basis invalidate any desire to play on snub. So another cap player here.
Those 2 points to start with. Both i have horrible ping, dont have a monster pc (well, not even a decent one XD), also dont have much time to spend in conn, and finally, the worst a player can be in a cap, if he know the basics, he will be able to at least scratch an ace in a similar ship (ie a bad Valor will scratch a ace in a Turtle) while in snubs...
I do envy those able to actually do smt in a snub, not my case tho and i see snubbing as a torture session.
RE: To snub or to cap. - sasapinjic - 02-02-2021
Capital player only.
I never had a chance to win against those aces in snubs that are capable of just boxing araund vs 6 players for hours(yeah, balance) so i just quited flying them.
On capitals sometimes i even win.
RE: To snub or to cap. - Hubjump - 02-02-2021
(02-02-2021, 10:37 AM)Val Wrote: That's the demonstration that normal guns > codenames on a performance/weapon cost/possibilities basis.
But Val... My prims are still absolute excrement which serve no purpose in the current state of battleship balance.
(02-02-2021, 10:37 AM)Val Wrote: Having and using codenames won't make you stronger in any way.
In the context of disco this line makes me violently angry.
Best examples being sledges and PPAC's.
I've told you why the state of pvp is either sledge/cerb charges or artillery kiting. It's because there lacks a viable middle weapon due to both range and damage output of prim... the intended middle weapon. The prim cannot compete in any aspect with any of the other available weapons and I've been steering clear because discussing this mods cap pvp balance is just stress as the constant complaining whilst being told the solution constantly whilst nothing changes for the better causes me too much stress and anger as I genuinely love(d?) this game. It's painful to watch it twist the knife in its own artery.
And hell that's only the guns don't get me started again for the 1000th time on the obvious importance of certain aspects of mobility which is constantly ignored.
I can't help but sound excruciatingly toxic toward the state of this game and thus somewhat annoyed towards the people responsible... It really is like watching a child play with the wall socket whilst you're stuck in a cage.
Also I play caps cos I like big battleships that's pretty much it. To feel imposing.
RE: To snub or to cap. - Val - 02-02-2021
(02-02-2021, 02:19 PM)Hubjump Wrote:(02-02-2021, 10:37 AM)Val Wrote: Having and using codenames won't make you stronger in any way.
In the context of disco this line makes me violently angry.
Best examples being sledges and PPAC's.
I've told you why the state of pvp is either sledge/cerb charges or artillery kiting. It's because there lacks a viable middle weapon due to both range and damage output of prim... the intended middle weapon. The prim cannot compete in any aspect with any of the other available weapons and I've been steering clear because discussing this mods cap pvp balance is just stress as the constant complaining whilst being told the solution constantly whilst nothing changes for the better causes me too much stress and anger as I genuinely love(d?) this game. It's painful to watch it twist the knife in its own artery.
And hell that's only the guns don't get me started again for the 1000th time on the obvious importance of certain aspects of mobility which is constantly ignored.
I can't help but sound excruciatingly toxic toward the state of this game and thus somewhat annoyed towards the people responsible... It really is like watching a child play with the wall socket whilst you're stuck in a cage.
Also I play caps cos I like big battleships that's pretty much it. To feel imposing.
I will re-phrase my sentence then: Having and using codenames shouldn't make you stronger in any way. This philosophy of "pay to win" is just very bad and a mistake. In my wall of text above, I didn't mention the cruisers, on purpose, because that's unfortunately the case for them.
On battleships, Gales allowed you to be unhittable at an astonishing range while dealing a large amount of damage in return. Therefore, they were re-balanced. The case of sledges is more malicious. On the paper, a range of 2.5k, with an efficiency close to cerbs', on prims slots. In practice, a lesser range (due to mutliple factors that you Kane, know, but won't detail them here), and barely appropriate in battleship kiting. Sledges will give you and edge for tanking, but I didn't lie in my previous post either:
(02-02-2021, 10:37 AM)Val Wrote: Codenames perform very well in a limited and precise area of the PvP world of caps (tanking, artillery etc)
I know your position and opinion regarding prims, as they were your beloved weapons in the past, in a different world as well. But...yeah. I also wouldn't go that far saying that prims are really bad nowadays, since when I'm on my light bs and fighting battleships, I mostly use 2x pulses and 2x prims to win, with a Hellbore if I consider it worth to be used.
RE: To snub or to cap. - Darius - 02-02-2021
Tldr;
Caps are p2w, snubs are good if you wanna get sealclubbed
RE: To snub or to cap. - Hubjump - 02-02-2021
(02-02-2021, 03:02 PM)Val Wrote: I know your position and opinion regarding prims, as they were your beloved weapons in the past, in a different world as well. But...yeah. I also wouldn't go that far saying that prims are really bad nowadays, since when I'm on my light bs and fighting battleships, I mostly use 2x pulses and 2x prims to win, with a Hellbore if I consider it worth to be used.
On a ship with 5 prim slots and the best ability to dodge in the game you can put more emphasis on safer and more consistent firepower whilst still having sufficient pulses to chainfire/spam to decide the pace of the fight if they even care about their shield which if they're smart. They will. Considering you use prims and a hellbore (The hellbore for added dps and efficiency not used as a long range weapon but as a dps crutch) .
In a normal scenario the user with pulses is most likely running an artillery build and thus you're more able to pressure them by ignoring your shield and avoiding the two sometimes three mortars fired at you as they're actually able to be dodged even if it is often a game of gambling due to the ever prevalent affects of desync.
In conclusion:
Murmi op lole
Jokes aside it's only like that due to the incompetence of who ever was initially in charge of strafe standardisation all those years ago as well as those responsible for the current state of balance being completely dominated either by EK or by pulses and their ability to out right remove the aspect of shields from the game in a duel. For the argument of they haven't changed well... I can't be bothered to read every single patch log and the wiki is extremely out of date (last update on BS pulse being 2012) but there is the chance the weapon went under the radar for a long while which doesn't mean it was balanced but well... just means it wasn't exploited to its full potential and exposed as the dominant weapon it is now. Or perhaps the lack of hellbores and cap codes meant it wasn't that well paired with anything other than the niche not so dominant artillery meta at the time.
(02-02-2021, 03:09 PM)DariusCiprian Wrote: Tldr;
Caps are p2w, snubs are good if you wanna get sealclubbed
Yeah, p much.