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+--- Thread: Suggestion: Events Admin(s) position (/showthread.php?tid=188388)
RE: Suggestion: Events Admin(s) position - Shimamori - 06-03-2021
(06-02-2021, 05:59 PM)Binski Wrote: Yes please do it!
Since you are the one who wants to introduce the elements of geopolitics, let's look at these examples from the perspective of the field of geopolitics.
(06-02-2021, 05:59 PM)Binski Wrote: IMG could challenge over Aland shipyard.
And face the might of Bretonian fleet which, despite having been worn down by Gallia, is by no comparison a Goliath against the IMG. Mind, the Bretonians will be fighting in their home space and staging an invasion usually requires more forces then defence unless very technologically superior to the defender (siege usually requires a ratio of 4 to 1). Moreover, even if by some tactical prowess the IMG capture Alland, the real problem would be HOLDING onto it. In a state of perpetual threat by Bretonia and in a blockade, they wouldn't be able to use Alland to any end save for showing how Chad they are to go against a House. Hence, why even attacking? Besides, IMG would intentionally deprive themselves of the Bretonian market, thus deteriorating their financial situation even more.
(06-02-2021, 05:59 PM)Binski Wrote: Outcasts could try to take Java!
This is more or less feasible. Two points to consider: the Houses don't want Tau 23 to fall completely in the Outcasts hands, so there might be backup. At the same time, the Outcasts do not really need Java as their cardamine routes are stronk and they are Chads even without it.
(06-02-2021, 05:59 PM)Binski Wrote: Blood Dragons could try to capture Planet Kyushu!
This one is absolutely ridiculous from all viewpoints. Not only would it require a sizeable fleet to challenge the whole House in one of their core systems, but also immense manpower and financial resources to HOLD onto that planet. Even in some magical scenario when the BD can outsmart the KNF somehow and blockade the planet, Kyushu is a multi-billion planet supplying food, so can definitely outlive the BD siege. Besides, being a pro-Samura planet, Kyushu won't welcome the BD and the BD would require insane ground army to exploit their control over the planet to some end. And the guerilla warfare of the locals (Samura sympathisers, Kusari loyalists, Farmer Alliance) will wear down already spread thin BD resources. In theory, the blockade of Kyushu can cause a food crisis in Kusari (wehich can be countered by the Synth stepping in, which the Blood Dragons don't want anyway). The blockade would also require quite a fleet, basically all they have got, leaving the BD exposed on all other fronts. I am not even analysing the financial situation on the newly conquered world (should they manage to conquer it in the first place) which would be catastrophical for the BD with no semblance of civilian administration and turn those indifferent to the BD against them as agressors and because of falling level of life. This whole operation is not worth it for them and would jeopardize the BD's very existence. Tomioka is a new barely colonised land where BD can lead a guerilla warfare with small units against primarily corporate security forces. You are telling about an invasaion into a core world and standing up against a numerically superior enemy both on the ground and in space on a planet with disdain for the dragons. Much smart.
(06-02-2021, 05:59 PM)Binski Wrote: The Liberty Insurgency or the Rogues could try to capture Pittsburg, or Houston. Or Siege Norfolk just to cause a ruckas with little hope of holding the station.
Firstly, rogues are pirates. They raid, not capute. Conquering and administering places is not their modus operandi. Besides, they won't have the sheer numbers to undertake such an operation, nor do they need it anyway. The Insurgency has a tad patchy lore, so it is unclear how large it is. Still, if we take into consideration the scale of their primary economy, Veracruz, with approximately 125,000 residents, they by no chance stand a chance of facing Libertarian armada, perhaps the strongest fleet in Sirius, on their turn in their own capital system. Nor would the Insurgency have the resources to control a 2.3 billion world, albeit highly concentrated in hive cities. Lack of proper envoronment on Pittsbourgh can also entail risk of disrupting the existing environmental infrastructure of the cities, thus killing many civilians in the process, which would be the end of the "insurgency" portrayed after that as committers of genocide (especially of newly come to Liberty migrants) and won't ever be able to win the hearts and minds of the people of Liberty or gain a support from other Houses, whose migrants they killed on Pittsbourgh.
More suggestions, Herr Clausewitz? You want to make another conflict of Kusari-Gallia scale which was an inRP disaster with no valid casus belli and/or buildup of the war?
RE: Suggestion: Events Admin(s) position - Binski - 06-03-2021
(06-03-2021, 12:21 AM)Shimamori Wrote: snip
Well, to me, its all dwelling on irrelevant things and excuses that are too weak. By keeping things the same, you cling to some weird perspective that bold exceptional things can't ever happen. Consistency is out the window here a long time ago, so worrying about it at the expense of keeping activity potential capped makes no sense. Remember 1.2 million troops landing on Gran Canaria at the height of the Gallic invasion of New London? Or a Crayter Republic carrier jumping in to Omega-3 to crash into Aland so it could be stolen from the IMG?
And so you're saying the Blood Dragon lore is locked so they couldn't possibly come up with an army, and battleships to secure the planet if they could plan an attack? Why would they not want control of a planet if it did turn out to be within their grasp? Why keep the game unable to do that when it could be able to do that? Why couldn't the Rogues work extra hard to use cruisers to capture Pittsburg and try turning it into a crime base? Why prefer to keep people from even trying just to maintain silly preconceptions that limit the game? Maybe they will fail, but the fun will be that the story of the Rogues either doing it or just trying and failing, becomes up to date, current story consistent with what actually happens on the server. How is that bad? That makes total sense to me, what doesn't is why we haven't done that for years already.
So yeah, in the end you could say none of that could ever happen, or accept that stuff like that could happen in the space world of Freelancer, come up with a fair system that everyone could use, that ensures fairness, and embrace that everyone's separate ideas of population numbers and etc are irrelevant compared to making actual physical use of the virtual environment. Avoiding change in this case just keeps things suppressed, slow moving, and defeats its own purpose.
(06-02-2021, 11:46 PM)Relation-Ship Wrote: Binsky: It happened already in S-17, and Orkney. First one was played for a solar base, a reasonably important one. It brought a lot of cancer gameplay really, on top of constant changes if IFF, Ships, Infocards etc. this is why staff is worried to do these again in terms of story events, much less open it up to declarations. Orkney we had a fun little liner base that was meant to last all weekend. It got slaughtered within hours by 13+ people on a workday with the other side never getting within 30k of the base lol. There just isn't enough balance in disco and willingness to lose assets to let people openly challenge for existing solars.
Yeah but what I remember of the S-17 event was that people actually logged in and it was busy again for a while. And to me, that event still held back. What you call cancer gameplay, I accept as normal and logical in most cases. Its better to have lots of battles going on over something, and get all the other activity that comes with it, than avoid it to avoid some inconvenient situations.
Changing infocards is useless in generating trade activity, or mining activity, or reasons to hire a freelancer for an escort, or targets to bounty hunt. We should worry less about that, and more about setting up the game to function better so we get more people online at any given time.
So, to me, its never been set up right to go all the way. How strong was that liner? Ironically under my system, liners are except, you wouldn't siege a liner to capture it, perhaps only unlawfuls would get that right. Instead, most bases could be given core 4 or 5 strength, and the ability to repair like POB's, I think we'd see things work fine. The point of using some NPC bases though is that they won't be lost, only change control. It could go on indefinitely in theory. As soon as one side wins a base, the other side could be ready to counter challenge. If done right, a siege would unfold over 3-7 days and likely have a clear winner after 5 days. So at that point defenders could give up if they know they will counter challenge for another week. It generates something to do, and eventually each scenario would resolve and settle down. I do think it would be interesting to see where the hottest hot spots would develop, and how long a battle would go back and forth. Bases in borderworlds and on the edges of the houses could be besieged regularly. Every time a new faction would take a base, other factions may then be able to take it from them. How does this sound unappealing to people? We'd really not do more over people being butthurt from actual battle outcomes? That will go down as the saddest event in human history. Lets be bold here for once! Take a chance, do something different. If they would just try it, and see what happens, I'm positive it would work just fine.
RE: Suggestion: Events Admin(s) position - Darius - 06-03-2021
Why must you pollute literally every event/admin/server-related threads with the same walls of text again and again, even after the community told you that those suggestions are not going to work?
RE: Suggestion: Events Admin(s) position - LuckyOne - 06-03-2021
The thing is, the Binski wall-of-texts could work, it's just that implementing some of those things would make Disco lose a lot of it's charms and nuisances. It would basically throw out of the window the delicate efforts to keep up things consistent with Freelancer lore and universe feel, and turn Disco into some kind of an arcade quasi-RTS-space-shooter hybrid.
You see Binksi, as much as Disco gameplay feels weird and complicated, sometimes pointless, often boring and mundane, the Story decisions obscure and it always feels like things are moving at a glacial pace, one must remember that Disco tries very hard to emulate reality in a sci-fi setting.
You don't take over cities with billions of inhabitants over the span of a few days, and you definitely don't win against the biggest fleets of the largest factions as a lowly pirate.
That being said, the current Disco gameplay, regarding the bigger picture of things, doesn't make for a great incentive to log and do stuff in the game, more like spend your days crafting BB code, learning lore and writing. (and networking with the key decision makers / stakeholders, but let's not open that can of worms
) It basically caters to the creative / social minds of people who can write good and consistent RP, and not necessarily the crowd that is here "just" to play the game. That crowd is mostly sidelined to be the "extras" in the Disco movie, sort of "reenactors" of the events told by the RPers.Something should definitely be done to make the "world" of Disco feel a bit more dynamic, so that there is incentive to log and do stuff every once in a while. The new "Entity" concept is interesting in that regard, as is the suggested position of an Event Admin. Some "conflict" systems where players could have limited impact on the solars / economy in the game world without going through story would also be and interesting idea.
For example, one could make Asteroid Miners mortal solars. They are totally unimportant/unused in the grand scale of things, but we could for example link the number of alive Asteroid Miners at the end of each day with the buy / sell price of the commodity they help produce, giving players a way to temporarily boost a single trade route / commodity price (without resorting to faction perks / requests), and corporations a reason to exists and play out their lore of being a bunch of crooks that will use any means they can to make money, even hiring pirates to hit on their rivals.
Or let's say an unlawful faction could "declare" they are trying to take out / temporarily disable a JG (perhaps somebody paid them for that, or they want to make the system more isolated, for example BDs could try to take out the Tottori JG and hinder or temporarily halt construction). Basically, stuff that already happens in-lore but the mechanics to actually play out this in the game are not currently present / obvious.
Or maybe we could have things like "mortal" Mooring points / Docking rings, where unlawfuls could cause ruckus by temporarily disabling the ability to dock on some planets / stations or travel fast through a system, thus funneling traders / militaries / corporations to change their usual patterns and start trading different stuff / venturing outside the grid defending different systems / hauling RMs and repairing the infrastructure.
This could again link up with the supply / demand side of things. Let's imagine a hypotetical scenario:
Synth Foods would like to earn massive profits and boost demands for their goods in Kusari, so they (covertly ?) approach Blood Dragons and set up a hit on the Kyushu Mooring point. The BDs efforts are successful and they manage to disable the Mooring point, the KNF unable to stop them.
The consequence of this is that the Kyushu Mooring point is disabled and transports are unable to dock there. The price of Kyushu Rice skyrockets on the sellpoints, as does the price of Food Rations. The players of Synth foods prepared for the eventual success of their plan by stockpiling a massive amount of Food Rations / Kyushu Rice on a nearby POB. Everybody enters a mad dash to obtain Rice / Food Rations through any means necessary, even the various POB owners jump into the massive opportunity and start selling off their own stocks. Small transports pile up on the Kyushu Docking gate to help with the loading and corps with barges park in front of it in an effort to relieve the hungry people of Kusari (and make massive profits!).
The various pirates jump in on the opportunity to pirate the relief ships, and Farmers Alliance sees this as the perfect time to strike against the gaijins in Synth Foods and proceeds to target their transports that are trying to rake in the cash.
The effects of these changes would be temporary, perhaps only a few days at most, or even just until the server restart.
P.S. Sorry everyone for my own wall-of-text, but if you can read 10 pages of dodgy RP, you can read a single post too
RE: Suggestion: Events Admin(s) position - Groshyr - 06-03-2021
(06-03-2021, 05:47 AM)DariusCiprian Wrote: Why must you pollute literally every event/admin/server-related threads with the same walls of text again and again, even after the community told you that those suggestions are not going to work?
Blinski thing: if you read one of his post - you read them all.
RE: Suggestion: Events Admin(s) position - Binski - 06-03-2021
(06-03-2021, 07:35 AM)LuckyOne Wrote: The thing is, the Binski wall-of-texts could work, it's just that implementing some of those things would make Disco lose a lot of it's charms and nuisances. It would basically throw out of the window the delicate efforts to keep up things consistent with Freelancer lore and universe feel, and turn Disco into some kind of an arcade quasi-RTS-space-shooter hybrid.
You see Binksi, as much as Disco gameplay feels weird and complicated, sometimes pointless, often boring and mundane, the Story decisions obscure and it always feels like things are moving at a glacial pace, one must remember that Disco tries very hard to emulate reality in a sci-fi setting.
Yeah but to me thats a mega exaggeration. How is it any different now? POB's can be sieged whenever with just 24 hours notice, not much rp needed, to siege POB's that are kept out of roleplay anyways. You could call that arcade-ish, right? In my eyes, the RP consistency we'd get would be better and more up to date. Story is so slow here, too fixed and therefore unrealistic in most cases I found (like the Gallic War which was all about handing the story to Gallia right up to the end and they still let them walk away from it pretty much). and sometimes ridiculous, how is having events and rp finally match up via a pre determined system worse? I appreciate the criticism, but I also wonder why people jump to conclusions like RP would be gone or story consistency would be impossible. Sounds like robots unable to think outside an outdated programming. Story keeping this place alive ended a long time ago. The Gallia-Kusari war was ridiculous to have happened period. This won't be more arcadish, it will be more interactive. A siege can still be RP'd as happening, you can RP your involvement, RP around the outcome, so whats the issue? Our ship classes, and engagement rules already form the bases for why what factions can do what.
(06-03-2021, 07:37 AM)Groshyr Wrote:(06-03-2021, 05:47 AM)DariusCiprian Wrote: Why must you pollute literally every event/admin/server-related threads with the same walls of text again and again, even after the community told you that those suggestions are not going to work?
Blinski thing: if you read one of his post - you read them all.
Yeah and one could also say whereever I make an argument, Groshyr is always there to try to suppress it. You don't really expect me to ignore this just to keep a bunch of kids that fear and reject any change suggestions out of protecting their own self interests happy right? As far as I'm concerned, those who fight me over this are just selfish and fearful, way past the point of being ridiculous. You only keep the place way off from where it could be, and for what? Some perception that the only way for things to be consistent is to not allow player driven changes? No one that opposes my system really cares about the server then. You just take the path of least resistence, and thats a philosophy that lead to the shrink we needlessly endured here.
People don't read the details and then complain, then wonder why it makes me belive your opposition is paranormal. Its freaky folks! This was the most logical thing to do here and it is really strange to see how much effort goes into suppressing it. Its not natural. And you wonder why I say stuff like, people are locked by their subconscious choices. And all of this because staff won't let it be tried to prove me right. Its fine, with each day this gets ignored, I am continuously proving a point. Those who oppose such a system are the anchors on this place that prevent it from really working to its full potential. But congratulations, if we ever did try it, you'd have already ruined it.
Since they're never going to do it, for no real reason, I'll just say that I believe the 'evil' got ahold of this place. You can tell who they are because they stay locked and can't be reasoned with at all. Its happening all over the world, people are actually mis-percieving events, believing they were in two places at once, remembering events incorrectly, believing irrational things, making irrational nonsensical choices and defending them under the guise its their opinion and right, etc. In some cases its them that chose it, its literally doing evil by nonsense or "running interference" which is keeping things on spin cycle to avoid real progress. Its ruining the world, disco is just a microcosm of the bigger conflict. And the worst part is, they have everyone thinking they are the good guys. But they are tricked into giving away their guilt, as everthing they accuse their opponents of, they reveal they are guilty of themselves. With all that shit going on out there, and people's strange behavior of the last few years (and the introduction of the virus to help change events like the election, of course, only democracies could be negatively effected) you really think the events of our world are just happening naturally? Wake up people, I shouldn't have to sound so extreme. Who do you really think are the Borg drones that need to be deprogrammed, and who are the free Humanists?
RE: Suggestion: Events Admin(s) position - Groshyr - 06-03-2021
(06-03-2021, 03:35 PM)Binski Wrote:(06-03-2021, 07:37 AM)Groshyr Wrote:(06-03-2021, 05:47 AM)DariusCiprian Wrote: Why must you pollute literally every event/admin/server-related threads with the same walls of text again and again, even after the community told you that those suggestions are not going to work?
Blinski thing: if you read one of his post - you read them all.
Yeah and one could also say whereever I make an argument, Groshyr is always there to try to suppress it. You don't really expect me to ignore this just to keep a bunch of kids that fear and reject any change suggestions out of protecting their own self interests happy right? As far as I'm concerned, those who fight me over this are just selfish and fearful, way past the point of being ridiculous. You only keep the place way off from where it could be, and for what? Some perception that the only way for things to be consistent is to not allow player driven changes? No one that opposes my system really cares about the server then. You just take the path of least resistence, and thats a philosophy that lead to the shrink we needlessly endured here.
People don't read the details and then complain, then wonder why it makes me belive your opposition is paranormal. Its freaky folks! This was the most logical thing to do here and it is really strange to see how much effort goes into suppressing it. Its not natural. And you wonder why I say stuff like, people are locked by their subconscious choices. And all of this because staff won't let it be tried to prove me right. Its fine, with each day this gets ignored, I am continuously proving a point. Those who oppose such a system are the anchors on this place that prevent it from really working to its full potential. But congratulations, if we ever did try it, you'd have already ruined it.
Since they're never going to do it, for no real reason, I'll just say that I believe the 'evil' got ahold of this place. You can tell who they are because they stay locked and can't be reasoned with at all. Its happening all over the world, people are actually mis-percieving events, believing they were in two places at once, remembering events incorrectly, believing irrational things, making irrational nonsensical choices and defending them under the guise its their opinion and right, etc. In some cases its them that chose it, its literally doing evil by nonsense or "running interference" which is keeping things on spin cycle to avoid real progress. Its ruining the world, disco is just a microcosm of the bigger conflict. And the worst part is, they have everyone thinking they are the good guys. But they are tricked into giving away their guilt, as everthing they accuse their opponents of, they reveal they are guilty of themselves. With all that ***** going on out there, and people's strange behavior of the last few years (and the introduction of the virus to help change events like the election, of course, only democracies could be negatively effected) you really think the events of our world are just happening naturally? Wake up people, I shouldn't have to sound so extreme. Who do you really think are the Borg drones that need to be deprogrammed, and who are the free Humanists?
Brevity is the soul of wit.
RE: Suggestion: Events Admin(s) position - Haste - 06-03-2021
I believe we are less in need of 'Event Managers' and more in need of good event concepts. I do think giving some more people the tools necessary to set up events wouldn't hurt to avoid burnout, but ultimately the bigger problem I currently see is that there just aren't many people devoting time to coming up with good events.
And by good events I don't mean "Hey what if we let factions A and B duke it out for some points per kill". We've been there, done that. Slappy's more exploration focused events were much more interesting for example.
RE: Suggestion: Events Admin(s) position - Groshyr - 06-03-2021
Indeed, exploration-based events by Slappy were interested and more difficult than just holding RMB in order to get a blue and extra millions to the 'pocket'. More multi-stage events, when outcome of previous one may change the flown of next one would be interesting to see.
RE: Suggestion: Events Admin(s) position - Czechmate - 06-21-2021
(06-03-2021, 03:53 PM)Haste Wrote: I believe we are less in need of 'Event Managers' and more in need of good event concepts. I do think giving some more people the tools necessary to set up events wouldn't hurt to avoid burnout, but ultimately the bigger problem I currently see is that there just aren't many people devoting time to coming up with good events.You just showed why an events admin is needed.
And by good events I don't mean "Hey what if we let factions A and B duke it out for some points per kill". We've been there, done that. Slappy's more exploration focused events were much more interesting for example.
He would execute event ideas community members come up with. And have power to OK small ones and make em happen FAST, not come up with concepts himself or herself. There's already a volunteer here that's already a mod.
OF event request takes months to a year, has no immediate feedback and is almost useless for those reasons for smaller scale events.