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+--- Thread: PVP balance - problem(s) and solution(s)? (/showthread.php?tid=203109)
RE: PVP balance - problem(s) and solution(s)? - Shinju - 05-19-2024
This will quite fast revolve to finger pointing.
My 5 cents though, logged twice. Once I arrived to be pilled upon by several NPC Cruisers and 4 player Cruisers and BS.
Second encounter we had BAF BC "Screaming how it's not fair to go even 2v1" vs someone who jumped into whole OC battlegroup, just to be ganked by BAF and KNF 3 minutes later. So I dunno.
RE: PVP balance - problem(s) and solution(s)? - monmarfori - 05-19-2024
There's more than just raw skill in teamfights. Proper coordination is an advantage you want to capitalize on if you want to win here in Discovery.
As for ganks, it doesn't always end in the ganked side losing. Trying your best will even help you win against superior numbers.
RE: PVP balance - problem(s) and solution(s)? - Czechmate - 05-19-2024
(05-19-2024, 09:13 PM)Levenna Wrote:XA- way isn't the right way at all, I wouldn't give them as an example whatsoever over their history of constant ganking with numbers and skill together of my factions.(05-19-2024, 07:59 PM)Czechmate Wrote: E.G. XA from my perspective always have had both skills and were ganking "because it's Lemon's faction"
Last time I was involved in a pvp with you, you were on a lawful battlecruiser shooting missiles at my XA- gunboat which was at the time already being chased by a rogue Hel. What point are you trying to make exactly?
My point is - the only way you will ever fix this is with a technical solution that doesn't rely on the players' self-correcting
RE: PVP balance - problem(s) and solution(s)? - TheSauron - 05-19-2024
(05-19-2024, 07:44 PM)Traxit Wrote: THE COMMUNITY HAS TO SELF-REGULATE
Sometime during the last couple of years, the general level of sportsmanship has taken a hard dive. There is no technical solution to this. People need to police themselves and bring it back up, otherwise the situation will just keep getting worse.
RE: PVP balance - problem(s) and solution(s)? - Darius - 05-19-2024
The problem is Them. I and my friends always get good fights from everyone but Them. It's always They who gank first, They who dogpile our snubs, They who buttcloak our capital ships.
It's Them who started this. They should get banned and that way we'll get fairer and better fights! We know better than Them and we always play fair and square with everyone! How dare They log in in the same system, at the same time, in the same year, to fight us, the benevolent fair fight givers of the DiscoveryGC community? Clearly, something has to be done, either by Haste or by Aingar, but to hell with Them and Their ganks!
... unfortunately, Discovery as a community has yet to understand who this imaginary "them" is, for "we" always know better than the other side, "we" always play better than "them", amongst other arguments. There's nothing we can do. People will self regulate or they won't, end of the story; not all groups will be the same.
RE: PVP balance - problem(s) and solution(s)? - Wesker - 05-19-2024
(05-19-2024, 08:37 PM)Big Bison Bessie Wrote: It's really a player thing, I dunno if there is anything code wise the devs can do here. Team work is OP, simple as that. When a whole squad of guys shows up and you got no way of having backup, it's hard to justify either as a player or in character of suiciding into a group fight by yourself or with one other guy. I mostly fly by myself or with just one other guy so it can be a challenge to track down and fight a group of say 10 guys without just dying. I have thankfully had a few instances of showing up to a huge wall of enemies and hanging around and dueling one guy, but there's nothing to stop all 10 from attacking you at once. And really, what would you even do there? Fair play and RP engagements and the need to PVP don't always mesh.
This pretty much sums it up.
Not that I really will ever complain. If I run into a group of people i fully expect to get double teamed at best.
RE: PVP balance - problem(s) and solution(s)? - Levenna - 05-19-2024
(05-19-2024, 09:22 PM)Czechmate Wrote: XA- way isn't the right way at all, I wouldn't give them as an example whatsoever over their history of constant ganking with numbers and skill together of my factions.
I mean, I just don't know where you're getting the skill part from. As has already been pointed out, individually most XA members are pretty average joes. I'm the primary exception of the people that currently log, and that's fine, I try not to engage when I'll carry a snub fight too hard. I think what you're perceiving is quite frankly just coordination and shot-calling, which goes back to validate my original post if anything. The whole very much be greater than the sum of its parts when it comes to pvp.
RE: PVP balance - problem(s) and solution(s)? - VaevictisAsmadi - 05-19-2024
There is no way a game like Freelancer can be balanced. There are too many variables:
- Various ships classes
- Ship Loadout
- Player count due to player preference to play a certain faction
- Player skill, which includes not only steering, shooting and positioning, but also teamwork, communication and focus
- Limited amount of players. There aren't thousand people you can pick to match make a team of similar skill.
When I started back up a few months ago, I wanted to focus mostly on PVP. In one raid two LF picked off several bombers due to their skill and ship capabilities. None of us could do anything to them, the capital class ships, didn't make a difference too, none of them could hit them. I think there is no possible way to balance group PVP. It could be quite discouraging to a new player to get destroyed. Could be more so with the upcoming 5.1. changes, where snubs can deal a lot better against capital ships. Imagine spending a few hours farming for your expensive capital ship, only to be blown up by a rust bucket.
The only thing I can see that would make a difference is adding a simple ELO system. That way when you get booped by somebody, you will know his relative level compared to you. "Oh, I see. I lost because that guy is in the top 10 in the server." But again, this will waste time and energy, that could be better spent elsewhere. Best course of action is for players to reach out to one another, say their "gg" and maybe offer to teach/learn in Conn.
RE: PVP balance - problem(s) and solution(s)? - Vendetta - 05-19-2024
Speaking from my perspective after only being back for like five or so months, so take it with a grain of salt if you must.
PvP has not been fun. The current model does not encourage me to practice or participate in any capacity. I don't find it accessible, engaging, or relatively easy to catch on and pick up any ship that isn't a VHF right now. As far as I'm concerned, everything else is a disaster. Dispersion is a joke. Cap balance is not fun (for the love of god just sit down and fix battleships). Fights do not last long enough to be worth logging in for and even if through some miracle they did, I'd be stuck using weapons and equipment that's so weird and out of place from the norm after sudden and drastic changes that I feel out of place.
Even after practicing, even after running tests with people, the result remained the same. It is not an enjoyable experience right now. There isn't a single piece of equipment or a single gun that appeals to me as worthwhile that isn't a 750m/s 3.03 snub gun.
Trying to pitch ideas of specializing and maybe changing a few things so certain people like myself who do have accessibility issues with the game might actually stand a chance, but was instead told I make people log off. The only person I've made log off recently is myself.
Reduce dispersion.
Reduce missile capacity.
Bring back gunboat missiles.
Fix battleships without making them worse than they've already been.
The component changes are neat. Bomber changes are great, but the fundamentals are all over the place right now and it's not a good experience.
RE: PVP balance - problem(s) and solution(s)? - Couden - 05-19-2024
Best way for most fun PvP is to reduce ttk and re-add one shot weapons to prevent gangs