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+--- Thread: Traders and Fair Play (/showthread.php?tid=23156)
Traders and Fair Play - Eppy - 07-11-2009
' Wrote:Ya they need to add new routes but eppy just because ure in a liner dont mean u cant take the jump holes
Back when i use to lawful trade i still rarly used lanes.
Uh...I usually DO use jumpholes. Simple fact of the matter is, there are some parts where doing so is impractical (like California, that hellhole so infamous among the liners), and pirates know it. I mean, sure, I COULD just go straight from the Virginia jumphole to the Cortez Jumphole, but the pirates on the lane would spot me a million miles away and chase me down regardless, so I have to go up above the plane, which adds some number relative to pi on to your travel time and decreases your efficiency to something which would be best described as 'meh' and is only slightly more efficient than being pirated (but only pirated once, mind you...) Simply put, it renders me Not Amused.
Traders and Fair Play - casero - 07-11-2009
Someone ask for two million, and you tell him you don't have it, then he says "then you die".
That's not piracy, that's a trigger happy "pirate". That's not RP, he's just giving you an engagement notice before he destroys you.
I never go into California as a trader, it's just too full of pirates. The best thing to do is to find alternative routes. Or be smarter than them.
USE THE JUMP HOLES.
The cortez jump hole in california is almost never watched, use it. It's a pain in the butt? Probably, I don't like to use it neither. But it works.
I'm sure your passengers would enjoy the sight of those ice fields.
Traders and Fair Play - Cellulanus - 07-11-2009
' Wrote:Ya they need to add new routes but eppy just because ure in a liner dont mean u cant take the jump holes
Back when i use to lawful trade i still rarly used lanes.
I would like to point out that lawful traders, particularly corporations should never use Jump Holes, since A) They are always within pirate territory B) They shouldn't know about them C) There is no way IC would insure them and D) Jump Holes have to be phase aligned to use them, and who knows what would happen to someone who uses one that isn't phase aligned or goes out of alignment while in it.
Traders and Fair Play - Benjamin - 07-11-2009
' Wrote:I would like to point out that lawful traders, particularly corporations should never use Jump Holes, since A) They are always within pirate territory B) They shouldn't know about them C) There is no way IC would insure them and D) Jump Holes have to be phase aligned to use them, and who knows what would happen to someone who uses one that isn't phase aligned or goes out of alignment while in it.
This is one of those things kind of can't work in Disco, because of all the changes from vanilla. While I agree in principal (and my liner doesn't use them), changes from vanilla disprove your claims which were of course once true.
A) no longer. Dozens of holes are now just in the middle of nowhere.
B) also no longer. DSE has a survey vessel in a system accessible only by jumphole. In fact, I think they've known about at least some jumpholes since forever. Rheinland got infected in Theta, right?
C) still true, but IC are too busy shipping cardamine and whatnot to insure anymore;)
D) One of those things that is no longer backed up by any gameplay.
Traders and Fair Play - hack - 07-11-2009
I agree with Eppy.
Traders SHOULD NOT be treated like second class citizens around here, subject to whatever abuse can be foisted upon them.
Without traders, there is no reason for Police, the pirates would have no one to pirate, and the server would be a lot emptier than it is.
EDIT: Jump Hole coordinates can be bought in your friendly neighborhood bar.
Traders and Fair Play - casero - 07-11-2009
Well, if lawful traders can't use jump holes. Pirates can't camp at the jump gates neither.
Traders and Fair Play - BaconSoda - 07-11-2009
The situation you describe is indeed crazy. The point of a pirate is not to break a trader, as most people think, but rather to take your livelihood from the trader while allowing the traders to thrive and continue. Of course, this is a normal pirate, not an idealist, so, that is rather general. This doesn't belittle the fact that, as the #1 money-making tool, trading attracts, well, everyone. Unfortunately, it seems that most traders are less than courteous. I mean, the last time I considered that someone didn't have the three million credits I demanded from his Mastodon, it turns out he really had an excess of five million ready to be sent at me. Not too nice to lie like that, 'eh? Not too nice to continue drifting when told to stop and chat, either. Or how about what people won't leave Trade Lanes?
Really, now, I can understand pirates becoming nasty, but, there is a certain point where the RP rivalry goes too far. If you find a pirate like that, and continue going on the same run while he's still on, though, I daresay, no sympathy. ;)
' Wrote:There are two runs for a Liner. One of them is a back and forth (and hence probably metagaming, since Xoria has something against back and forths). The other goes through California.
VIPs (Luxury Liner Shetland) --> Planet New Berlin (149.6 cr/s) or Planet Baden Baden (127.6 cr/s)
Luxury Food (Planet Stuttgart) --> Luxury Liner Shetland (132 cr/s)
I don't think you're looking hard enough. :P
Traders and Fair Play - NonSequitor - 07-11-2009
This is my very subjective opinion, but I've never really understood the need to pirate for any more than 50k.
When you think about it, 50k is quite a bit of cash money.
The smart pirate, who understands the big picture, will be reluctant to milk the cash cow dry. Demanding substantially larger sums may bankrupt the trader and convince him (and others) to find other routes. Not to mention having the authorities harassing above mentioned pirate with renewed vigor.
While I'm on the subject of authorities, where are they? You would think that someplace in/near core house space would be crawling with police and military. Maybe some mercs could help you out for a fair price.
The whole fair play definition is harder to pin on the wall than the proverbial jello. Sure, we want realism with our game - the knowledge that we will occasionally face defeat, ludicrous odds or hardship nurtures a foreboding sense of excitement.
However, there's a difference in being a poopyhead in rp and a poopyhead in game. When players take the low road and thus fail to differentiate between the two, someone's game experience will inevitably suffer. Sure, a pirate can demand his share multiple times within a short time span and it can be completely in rp. But at that juncture, a pirate should exercise some healthy introspection - "Is taking my rp this far really a good idea?
Traders and Fair Play - Eppy - 07-11-2009
' Wrote:The situation you describe is indeed crazy. The point of a pirate is not to break a trader, as most people think, but rather to take your livelihood from the trader while allowing the traders to thrive and continue. Of course, this is a normal pirate, not an idealist, so, that is rather general. This doesn't belittle the fact that, as the #1 money-making tool, trading attracts, well, everyone. Unfortunately, it seems that most traders are less than courteous. I mean, the last time I considered that someone didn't have the three million credits I demanded from his Mastodon, it turns out he really had an excess of five million ready to be sent at me. Not too nice to lie like that, 'eh? Not too nice to continue drifting when told to stop and chat, either. Or how about what people won't leave Trade Lanes?
Really, now, I can understand pirates becoming nasty, but, there is a certain point where the RP rivalry goes too far. If you find a pirate like that, and continue going on the same run while he's still on, though, I daresay, no sympathy. ;)
VIPs (Luxury Liner Shetland) --> Planet New Berlin (149.6 cr/s) or Planet Baden Baden (127.6 cr/s)
Luxury Food (Planet Stuttgart) --> Luxury Liner Shetland (132 cr/s)
I don't think you're looking hard enough. :P
I don't consider Luxury food an appropriate commodity for liners, tbh (unless it's for RP purposes, which is pointless anyways because it degrades). As far as I'm concerned, the ship is only built for humans, and anything else and it's pretty much throwing normal RP to the winds (something I will confess that, unfortunately, I have done at this point. I'll see you in the Taus). If it doesn't breathe and walk on two legs...
Traders and Fair Play - farmerman - 07-11-2009
I do sort of agree. If your demands are to the point where you're causing other people to lose fun, you're doing something wrong. After all, what's the point of RPing a pirate if you're going to scare everyone away? Quality pirating encounters with less stolen in greater numbers are much better than one big heist that leaves the other player not wanting to considering going that way again.
In most cases, a million credits is a fine demand. Of course, the more the pirate RPs it, the more cooperative I tend to be (and vice versa), so that's quite modifiable.
The exception is, in my opinion, when you get opposing groups. For OSC, running into a Gaian is going to be a lot more painful than running into, say, a GC. In theory. (Last time I pirated an OSC on my Gaian, I traded their life and a VIP I had captured for some consumer optronics and information on people who gave the most irresponsible tours of Gaia.) Certainly the LWB wouldn't be merciful with Synth Foods.
Of course, those encounters also have a higher chance for fun. I much prefer getting pirated by Dragons or Xenos with my Samura ship.
Also, aren't there a bunch of possible routes that go between Bretonia and Rheinland (ie, the area with a lot of "can't pirate" OSC types?).
' Wrote:I would like to point out that lawful traders, particularly corporations should never use Jump Holes, since A) They are always within pirate territory B) They shouldn't know about them C) There is no way IC would insure them and D) Jump Holes have to be phase aligned to use them, and who knows what would happen to someone who uses one that isn't phase aligned or goes out of alignment while in it.
That isn't entirely true anymore, unfortunately. I'd say they shouldn't use *most* jumpholes though. Guard systems are still only accessible that way, after all. And certain other projects aren't insured either, such as the Chugoku gate site.