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+--- Thread: Cruisers (/showthread.php?tid=38063)
Cruisers - Montezuma/Kukulcan - 04-07-2010
' Wrote:not long ago - mjolnir ( admittedly he is a good pvper ) - had a thread going - where he made players in gunboats attack him in a cruiser.
from what i know... not a single gunboat defeated him.
off of all the gunboats - the nomad gunboat is the strongest - i had no trouble taking it down in a BHG destroyer ( one of the weakest destroyers - dps wise - but a rather small target of course )
yes - things are different when its for example - a liberty siege cruiser vs. a BHG gunship / kusari GB.
but it is often asked of us to look at the average player rather than the ace.
the average gunboat player will not take down the average cruiser player.... i am convinced about that.
i have made tests of cruisers vs. gunboats :
- LABC vs. rogue GB
- bret destroyer vs. kusari GB
- fearless vs. nomad GB
- BHG destroyer vs. nomad GB
- BHG destroyer vs. corsair GB
- kusari destroyer vs. tridente
the destroyer always won. ( these tests were conducted long long ago though - beta of 4.85 )
The average GB pilot may not be able to solo a Cruiser yes, but even a pair of poor GB pilots should be able to take down a Cruiser (unless the cruiser pilot has proper skill), not how i immagine it should be, and this is mostly because Gunboats can evade most of the Cruisers fire, meaning any shots that do hit will do nothing but dent its sheild, which the GB will only need a few seconds to restore.
Cruiser weapons just need a dammage buff, simple as that, perhaps even a double like BS primaries got, that would be the only way of making them effective at their secondary combat role (taking GBs down).
Cruisers - Jinx - 04-07-2010
@montezuma:
i am not entirely disagreeing with you.... but ( yea, you had seen it coming )
lets say - two gunboats kill a cruiser - we apply the logic of the battleship on it. - two bombers kill a battleship - and we ( even those that dislike battleships ) agree that its a stupid balance, but a balance none the less.
its 2 players vs. 1 player. they kill the other one, cause they outnumber him.
i m a bad cruiser player, but i am fairly certain that i can defeat or cripple an average gunboat ( 1 vs. 1 ) in most cases. in any way - the gunboat will have to work MUCH harder than i have to do.
when i face two players though - its the old outnumbering problem. - 2 LF vs. 1 VHF ( the LF will probably win ), 2 bombers vs. 1 battleship ( the bombers will most probably win - provided they have a day off )
the balance of freelancer is kind of .... the smaller and more agile your ship, the more the pilots experience and skill comes into effect. - you can get from highly vulnerable up to invulnerable in a LF by skill of dodging, but you can only get so far in a battleship by knowing how to dodge. - the larger your ship, the more vulnerable you get, the more your skill must move to offensive skills. - the smaller your ship, the more balanced you can spread your skills to the defensive, too.
lets say - cruisers get more damage....
they might be too strong against gunboats - that are not too great in 4.85 anyway. - cruisers with numerous turrets might even be able to instakill not-so-skilled bombers ( yet having much trouble with skilled ones )
besides - capital ship weaponry is being reviewed every version update anyway....
Cruisers - schlurbi - 04-07-2010
Gunboats are easy to kill with a Cruiser. When I flew the Liberty Rogue Cruiser for the first Time we were able to kill a Storta and at last three Tridentes. Well we were two Cruisers, but still...
Cruisers - ... kur nubėgo? - 04-07-2010
' Wrote:then ask a GB pilot with skill a BIT above average and you'll see that even a good cruiser captain will be quite helpless. Its a matter of using their ships right
Lie. I had my time testing cap ships on costum hamachi servers. And believe me I don't use caps neither I have a lot of experience in them. All I done was simple common sense what weaponry and tactics against some ships should work. Guess what.
I used corsair cruisser. An gunboat attempts no matter with what layout (razors/pulses. Primaries or primaries and razor pulses mix) didn't managed to take out my cruisser.
Later same cruisser with basicly same layout. (2pulses, and mortar both turning forward and backwards) faced BHG battleship. Yet I didn't defeated it, but really gave a hard time for him to fight me. Always keeping in range and firing pulses + mortar. I have a strong belief that if the battleship would be bigger in size (watch legate) I would have done a lot more damage. And that was 1 on 1. Cruissers are ment to be support vessels.
Heh. I think the problem arises to the player ship count balance more than a ship stats. Then you have battleship flying all around and bombers... ship becomes quite useless in some cases. Peeps who wants more power simply picks up BS instead of cruissers: becouse cruissers has less face to face power and becouse cruissers needs more brains to handle right in diffrent situations.
If we would have balanced fights around disco.. i think cruisser would make up a task way better than they are flamed for at the moment.
P.S small note. To fly a cruisser is quite fun. If I would have a lot of funds and could buy whatever I want from caps I would chose this class.
Cruisers - arvg - 04-08-2010
Now as for Gunboat fu.. Personally I like the balance as it is there. I tag team with another gunboat and suddenly the effectiveness of these vessels jumps up by a large amount.
It is like that with bombers, one bomber finds a gunboat tricky... Two bombers rape it. and so Two gunboats rape a cruiser... two cruisers rape a battleship... seems a steady formula to me.
Cruisers - farmerman - 04-08-2010
In my albeit limited experience, this is what it seems like about cruisers in regard to the last few posts.
I have low Cruiser experience so I'm guessing I'm not very good. I know I was able to take out a pair of Corsair Gunboats in a RPC. Had it been a Hessian Cruiser, I think it would've been a kill fest. I think a pair of light and small gunboats properly equipped for fighting something heavy would do a very good job.
That, combined with the bomber issue, makes me think that what Cruisers could use is a faster Battle Razor, possibly with some lower range. Possibly also an increase in primary range by about 300m?
I'm not sure, but I bet there's some solution out there somewhere!
Cruisers - Blaze - 04-08-2010
Cruisers dont need a faster razor but it needs a more Powerful razor.
Cruisers - Cosmos - 04-08-2010
take away the cruise to catch up crap and put it as it was.
thus solving many problems.
Cruisers - Camtheman Of Freelancer4Ever - 04-08-2010
Cruisers DO NOT need to be buffed against battleships, like they are now. Battleships are supposed to kill ALL other capital classes (except when those other classes are in number, like 3-5 GB's could kill a BS, so SHOULD 2-3 cruisers)
This would make the BS's role undefined. (and dont throw me any of that "THEY'RE ROLEPLAY PLATFORMS OLOLOLOL!" PVP intersects RP wether you like it or not so just shush)
Cruisers specialty needs to be gunboats/other cruisers
Quote:take away the cruise to catch up crap and put it as it was.
thus solving many problems.
I wholeheartedly agree
Cruisers - ... kur nubėgo? - 04-08-2010
' Wrote:<...> Battleships are supposed to kill ALL other capital classes <...>
You are playing the wrong game then. Cruissers should have range advantage over battleships, more like siege weapons. And they should be able to kill the battleships if used by a captain whos brains are bigger than an apple.
Also, I started to have a strong believe, that you want to turn off the cruisse drain, just becouse you could cruisse after cruisser and kill it. Which would make cruissers even more useless. Oh, but they shouldn't be like that against the bs's.
A think we all could agree that in this game there is no top level game end which ends with best equipment ever. Alltought, maybe not, but we are trying to achieve that. And your thinking, cam, in such world of ours has no place. As it seems.