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+--- Thread: Transporting Zoner Passengers (/showthread.php?tid=38434)
Transporting Zoner Passengers - Jinx - 04-16-2010
while its not a final name for such a commodity, i wouldn t use "zoner passenger" - but rather something like zoner emigrant or so. - to make clear that most of those people only book "one way tickets".
anyway - i d lean towards option b, too. ( both parts - origin / destination ) - imo - a "fresh" zoner would probably flee to one of the borderstations ( like fp2, 6 or 1 ) - and only from there - after some time... they d go further into the edgeworlds.
i don t see emigrants from the core to go straight to fp11 or 10.
Transporting Zoner Passengers - Dusty Lens - 04-16-2010
Hey Mal! Since you're the big cheese here I'll address this to you.
- I think it is important to distinguish push/pull factors for a transient Zoner community/commodity.
- As such I think that it is important to break the Zoners into two groups.
A) Zoners who are existing in an intentionally isolated zone whom would likely remain stationary either for extreme periods of time or indefinitely.
B) Zoners who are existing in space in true Zoner fashion but act in the role of the Zoner merchant class. The kind we see on Independent world freeports, for example.
'A' Zoners would live in Delta, Yukon, Theta and Tau-37
'B' Zoners would live in Omega 3, Bering, Kepler and so on.
Or, to distinguish, A are Borderworld Zoners. B are Independent world Zoners.
B Zoners seem to exist in regions which maintain a potential for commercial activity, serving as large scale truckstops along busy routes from which wares and services may be bartered.
I believe the B stations would be ideal consumption points for transitory Zoner passengers.
I believe that Gran Canaria would be an ideal production point for transitory Zoner passengers.
And vice versa.
As Jinx suggested "fresh" Zoners would likely migrate. I believe it's logical to assume that, given the current setup the Zoners have to deal with, Gran Canaria is the most realistic source of Zoner populations.
So.
Gran Canaria to "Indie" Freeports and back again.
That's a system which works in my mind.
Edit for Xoria: As a commodity dealing with Zoners I don't feel that it really works as a model to include the fringe Zoner bases. Their populations are rather small... A transport laden with 2500 people would clean Freeport 14 out five times over (citation needed).
This idea might be silly. Stupid silly actually. But if you were looking for something to move between Zoner bases it might be interesting to employ something as common as correspondance, packages, supplies and so on. Basically miscelanious freight earmarked to travel from Aunt Mabel in Yukon to Cousin Bernice in Tau-37 (You know how cold it gets out there and how much she loves my letters/sweaters/pie).
I imagine there's conceptual room for something as pedestrian as freight between distant relations within the Zoner community.
Transporting Zoner Passengers - Malaclypse 666 - 04-17-2010
I like your thinnin', Dusty.
While i and others view Canaria as rather barren and unpopulated, relatively speaking, it does make sense that the "production" of Zoners has shifted over time from the "disenchanted and disenfranchised" to makin' babies on Canaria, and now from those bases in Omega 50 perhaps.
Those kids won't necessarily wanna stay home "on the farm".
(Also, Canaria probably does not have infinite supplies of deuterium..)
So, excellent suggestion on "Zoner passengers."
Now, for the places that need love, and Yukon definitely needs love, along with the "border" stations you mentioned, give us a tad better profit return on fares for "regular" passengers, to cover the folk who still want to get away from it all.
Cheers
Transporting Zoner Passengers - Yaoquizque - 04-17-2010
I globally agree with DustyLens except about the role of Gran Canaria. GC would be indeed the best source for zoners passengers fluff-speaking; The problem is O49 is already a departure point for several goods. Adding one would be a waste in my humble opinion.
On the other side, we have at the moment systems like Kappa, which are neither departure points nor destination points for any good.
Zoner passengers could be a "good" link between every freeport/zoner planet. As a Zoner Guard trader, it's personnally a pain to make pure zoner routes.
What i would actually love to see is :
Zoner immigrants
Taken from house space and border worlds and delivered to freeports and zoner planets.
For example for Liberty, departure points would be Planet Erie (Penn), and Freeport 4 (Magellan); For Kusari empire, departure points would be Planet New Tokyo (New Tokyo) and Gas Miner Naha (Sygma 13). Etc
Two departure points per house (one inside house space, one outside house space) would be ideal, in order to allow Zoner Guard people to carry zoners immigrants.
Destination points would be any zoner base/planet. Price would depend on the distance between the departure point and destination point, and on how populated the base/planet is supposed to be (ie, how many people the base/planet can welcome).
Also, Zoner immigrants could be considered as a threat for some Houses.
For example Bretonia, in war at the moment with Kusari, and deeply in need of resources, could see such population move as a trahison.
Transporting Zoner Passengers - n00bl3t - 04-17-2010
' Wrote:Yes. Yes I do. I have an indie Zoner Eagle.
And that would be rather funny.
I pull the "not real Zoner" card out.:P
Seriously though, I would support the second option, probably b more than a.
Transporting Zoner Passengers - Dusty Lens - 04-17-2010
I hear you and I did consider Erie... Her place in disco is a weird one to say the least. I'm not even completely sure that the Zoners have managed to reconcile having a new planet suddenly which is also kind of a Liberty planet and, oh look! Lanes and such.
I dismissed Erie based on the following factors. Note that I'm not claiming that my view is right and yours is wrong, they are simply my views.
1) Liberty does not need more trade.
2) The Zoners do not need routes which concentrate them in the core. From Erie to Ames, for example, is almost entirely within the core worlds of Sirius.
3) I'm not sure if Erie could be considered as a cultural hub for the Zoners, a place for them to return to after departing into the dark.
I'm sure I could dredge up some other thoughts but... Well... Yeah =/
Maybe I'm biased against Erie due to my not really getting it.
Transporting Zoner Passengers - Malaclypse 666 - 04-17-2010
I don't really "get it" either, bud. It is Liberty.. regardless of the real sweet back story, it just doesn't jell.
Ditto, Bethlehem, which I've heard rumored will be purchased shortly by a Liberty Corp.
Right now, all Bethlehem is good for is NFZ violators, and that stuipid bloody Zoner quad bribe. Move THAT to Freeport 14 if you want traffic in the Canucks.
But i digress...
Transporting Zoner Passengers - kuth - 04-17-2010
Quote:2) Limited Destinations :
2a) Two primary destination, with many origins
This.
I fully disagree with Dusty. Gran Canaria isn't an ideal production point for Zoners. For two reasons. One, we already have a major export there. Two, Zoners orginate from House space. We do have 'Zoners by birth' but that is a small % of our population. Most of which end up heading back into House space to see what it is about, not heading to other Freeports.
Another reason is, that is another step into forcing Zoners to RP as a single nation. Which we are not. We are not a nation, we are not one people.
Canaria is the gem of the Zoners. The first world we found and kept control of. Canaria is where most Zoners want to end up. It is a fresh new start.
As for Erie? Liberty is taking control of Penn. The Zoners of Penn should be fleeing Erie at light speed if they wish to retain their freedoms. Beth will be sold, I'd fully support the allowing Zoners to RP moving refugees from Erie to Canaria in 4.86 then us fully losing all of Penn in the next update. Get us out of house space!
That said: Gran Canaria is the primary destination with the two Porto Novo/Boa Vista as the secondary destinations. While Freeport 10 and 11 are indeed 'out there' logically most people aren't going to run to the two stations perched on hell's doorstep. Majority are going to run to the place where they can start over, Canaria.
As for where to export from. Freeport 6 (Kusari)! Freeport 2 (Liberty/Rheinland)! Freeport 1! (Bretonia) Those should be the main (lowest price) sources as they have nothing going for them now so they are ignored. I spent hours upon hours pouring over Zoner imports/exports when I became a leader in OSI. All other Freeports should have a decent run to Omega-49/50 but not as good as 2, & 6. (btw, 10 has an export. Niobium) 1 is pretty close to Canaria so it can't have as good a profit margin as 2 and 6 though. This leaves 5 without an export but other than a mineral of some type or another unique good, Freeport 5 doesn't offer much. The people there will get sick and die if they don't keep a good stock of drugs there and the population is rather small.
Transporting Zoner Passengers - Dusty Lens - 04-17-2010
Just to say, because I feel that it might be essential to verify the degree of legitimacy you should attribute to my walls of text, I am not "a zoner". I have no Zoner characters, I am not invested in Zoner diplomacy and I have yet to have purchased my first Juggy.
So, please, do not take any views I posit as Zoner gospel. I'm just this dude who sometimes has some opinions on player movements and theory of trade.
That being said... I'm having difficulty reconciling the idea of wishing to avoid using Gran Canaria due to it possessing an export and perception of focusing populations on that world reinforcing a false notion of unity with the argument that people should be moving from the Indipendent/Borderworld freeports to Gran Canaria in order to secure, as you put it a fresh start... is confusing me.
What you're stating is essentially the same thing I stated, but backwards.
Where I said
GC <--------> B type bases
You're saying I'm wrong and that it should be
B type bases <-------> GC
Which is the exact same thing....
Unless you're saying
B type bases -----> GC? No return trip?
*This post was brought to you by a bottle of Gascon wine. Excellent Monblanc.
Transporting Zoner Passengers - Malaclypse 666 - 04-17-2010
Dang, Cross,
You make excellent points as well, and I grant that you probably do have more experience with trade than I, being pretty much a "stay-at-home" Father of my Flockies.
I hereby edge towards the OSI point of view.. subject to yet more brilliant feedback. (Even if the feeder doesn't own a Juggy.. heh.)