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+--- Thread: Hyperspace Drives (/showthread.php?tid=38788)
Hyperspace Drives - tansytansey - 04-23-2010
*gathers 10 LNS lolships*
/hyperjump New Berlin 111,222,333
Where is your war now, huh?
Hyperspace Drives - Prototype - 04-23-2010
' Wrote:The fuel should also decrease while in your hold like MOX does.
That would give a 'Tanker'-supplyship a complete new range of possibilitys!
Hyperspace Drives - Coin - 04-23-2010
mox is too fast, but plutonium is too slow. pluto degrades like 1 unit over a 6 system run. (can't remember how fast mox degens at, but its almost useless as a cargo unless your in something really agile)
i'd have the jump limited to ONE system.... but there is nothing to say that you cant have ships with more fuel 'cloaked' at that location (i.e. F1'd out at texas 111,111,111, hudson 111,111,111 hamburg 111,111,111) so they can act as fuel caches for future raids. This would give police forces a lot of work to do... instead of just having 'legitimate businessmen' and pirates to hassle, they can now have the right to scan EVERY vessel to make sure that they are not sneaking in quantities of fuel to stick into a cache.
Thought: can we make storage depots purchasable? (those things we used to blow up to get pirate reps) We could then have a transport dump the container at a certain place, and then successive visits could fill it up with fuel for the jumps. When the BS jumps though the systems, it would need to fill up again for each system.
I think it should take a large amount of fuel to create the 'pinch-field' to hyperspace to the next system, and the same amount of fuel regardless of the ships being transported: otherwise the ships that are docked with the carrier could make the carrier too heavy to jump.
Thus, traders would not abuse it because it only jumps you one system, and it takes all your fuel to jump, so you cannot jump away without more, and if you really want, you can spend a week lining up all the fuel caches to do one trade run in 15 mins.
jumping only one system:
i mean to the neighbouring system, irrespective of tradelanes/regular jumpgates. what you are doing is opening a temporary, one way jumphole. so, dauphine>t37, omega 7>humboldt, new hampshire>luneberg, yukon>t29 these are places where you'd normally take a 6-7 system route to get to. and this is more strategic than 'ny>nb'
it also means we dont need the extra gravity-well ship to counteract house to house jumping if they can only jump one system in any direction
Hyperspace Drives - JIVA - 04-23-2010
if you make "using" a feature too hard, you can also add a useless RP item for keeping in the hold - like...
order cloaking device ( no effect but it looks nice in your hold )
liberty hyperjump generator ( again no effect but makes you look neat )
if you wanne add a feature that is actually fun to use - it shouldn t be based on a full production chain. - when you re a trader tryding consumer goods, you don t wanne trade raw materials first to trade consumer goods.
if you make it too hard to get - you get the grinder effect. ( remember ... battleships are expensive - and trading was made more complex. - who complained the most about it? - so called "true" roleplayers, while the "silent" grinder simply traded and got himself what he wanted. )
adding a long process before your reward - doesn t necessarily increase the quality of roleplaying, it just increases the time it takes until you have what you want. - and the people that get it are those with enough time to spare.
right now, i d guess that getting hyperdrives is about as likely as getting cloaking devices - but its nice to argue about it of course.
on the other hand - ask yourself - what is a hyperdrive / instant travel actually good for?
- flying a distance that usually takes a lot longer to fly in an instant? - what about your "escorts" that are supposed to be with you all the time? - you hang out there at your destintion waiting for them? or do they fly ahead of the big ship...
- escaping from a fight? - well, that d be like fleeing. but if it was made so that its actually escape from a fight - is it a fair balance? - ( those that fight you won t care too much how long it took you to accumulate what you need for a jump, they only see you vanish ) - but if it takes long and makes you vulnerable to jump out of a fight - whats it for anyway.... only travelling? ( see point 1 )
- when something takes so long to activate... you want to show off with it. - so lone travelling is hardly an option. - after all, you don t wanne spend hours mining / buying stuff - or even having a tanker fly up to you - just to pop a hyperdrive all alone to get from A to B.
Hyperspace Drives - Coin - 04-23-2010
the trouble with hyperspace is that it is too easy to be used/abused.
if the raid has to be planned and prepared over the week... much more enjoyment out of the success, as opposed to 'gamma everyone?' 'k'
besides that, a non-tagged train *could* sneak through into liberty/rhine territory and be waiting at the destination of one of the waypoints. the cattlebruiser and escorts form up, jump - restock - jump - restock - jump - restock - jump
and pew pew pew boom. hit them when they're sleeping. /pearlhabour.
however, another idea.
not all of the fuel could be needed for a jump, but the hyperdrive could do a maximum of three jumps in a row, and then require a 20min cooldown, OR you can use again but it uses up all remaining fuel and you have to get out on sublight travel alone. ifyou wait for the cooldown, it uses the regular amount of fuel (say, full of fuel gives ten jumps)
i think features that are part of a long production chain are actually more fun to use. basic alloy and super alloy to smelters, ship hull panels to shipyards, etc etc... you can see that chain. else you are flying <item> to <base> and then back again. in the case of the fuel... the grunts of the organisation have to do the legwork, but the admirals have to do the planning. getting the planning right is as important as getting the details right. it gives a faction some task/objective to acheive together, and this makes for a concerted effort = high morale -> good community spirit.
either way, im just spinning my wheels, trying to come up with ideas to ensure fun and balance and achievability and simplicity of coding
Hyperspace Drives - darthbeck - 04-23-2010
vary nice suggestion, However, It doesent make much sense...
liberty assult fleet jumps to frankfurt?
That's out of their ZOI, or is it? Would ZOI not apply to ships with hyper drives? THen they could just Travel the systems normally, and claim to have used their hyperdrive.
NOt to mentions all the problems of "Balancing" the fuel usage and such.
Hyperspace Drives - Ironwatsas - 04-23-2010
Quote:I can see this combined with a new class of fighter, a scout of sorts, two class 10 slots and a cloaking device, which could be used to scout out the hyperdrive co-ords, before bringing in the big guns...
it would be useful for asteroid-prone systems.
I'd love this to be implimented, with a sort of mini-black hole effect popping up in space, the enemies going WHAT THE F- before being struck down by a carrier and numerous fighter wings.
Cloak would be a bit much. Any ship can just fly in and /getpos. And there are a good number of ships already in mod that'd be perfect for such a role (Ku explorer, Spatial, Arrow, etc). But yeah, the point of having to get system co-ordinates adds a bit of realism and expands the RP of strategic reconnaissance.
Quote:if you make "using" a feature too hard, you can also add a useless RP item for keeping in the hold - like...
order cloaking device ( no effect but it looks nice in your hold )
liberty hyperjump generator ( again no effect but makes you look neat )
if you wanne add a feature that is actually fun to use - it shouldn t be based on a full production chain. - when you re a trader tryding consumer goods, you don t wanne trade raw materials first to trade consumer goods.
If it's too easy then this happens:
Quote:*gathers 10 LNS lolships*
/hyperjump New Berlin 111,222,333
Where is your war now, huh?
The basis of it is that it will be moderately difficult, but more based on player interaction to acquire rather then simple grinding. Most players that would abuse it would lack the tact or the ability to get it.
You are correct though that it shouldn't be TOO HARD to use or gimp players using it too much or else it does become rather pointless. It should be straightforward once you have the componants, but it will require work through RP to get a hold of.
Quote:i think features that are part of a long production chain are actually more fun to use. basic alloy and super alloy to smelters, ship hull panels to shipyards, etc etc... you can see that chain. else you are flying <item> to <base> and then back again. in the case of the fuel... the grunts of the organisation have to do the legwork, but the admirals have to do the planning. getting the planning right is as important as getting the details right. it gives a faction some task/objective to acheive together, and this makes for a concerted effort = high morale -> good community spirit.
This, is exactly the point. Rather then just a 'jumpdrive from A to B faster', it's a plot device which promotes RP, and more importantly, character interaction and factional activity.
Both the actual acquisition of the hyperdrive, mining of the fuel, as well as scouting, organizing the actual jump, and placement of strategic fuel stockpiles in the form of transports, and following up on it, add a level of strategic depth for the possessing party.
The same applies defensively with deployment by the defending party of Gravity wells and defensive fleets, as well as sweeper teams to detect any supply ships or scouts.
Quote:That's out of their ZOI, or is it? Would ZOI not apply to ships with hyper drives? THen they could just Travel the systems normally, and claim to have used their hyperdrive.
NOt to mentions all the problems of "Balancing" the fuel usage and such.
Normal ZoI would still apply, if a BHG battleship jumps to the middle of Gallia, it can still be sanctioned for it.
As for balancing fuel usage... Simple values of distance, fuel consumption, and (possibly) ship size. I don't see how much harder that would be then tweaking armor values on ships.
Quote: mox is too fast, but plutonium is too slow. pluto degrades like 1 unit over a 6 system run. (can't remember how fast mox degens at, but its almost useless as a cargo unless your in something really agile)
i'd have the jump limited to ONE system.... but there is nothing to say that you cant have ships with more fuel 'cloaked' at that location (i.e. F1'd out at texas 111,111,111, hudson 111,111,111 hamburg 111,111,111) so they can act as fuel caches for future raids. This would give police forces a lot of work to do... instead of just having 'legitimate businessmen' and pirates to hassle, they can now have the right to scan EVERY vessel to make sure that they are not sneaking in quantities of fuel to stick into a cache.
Thought: can we make storage depots purchasable? (those things we used to blow up to get pirate reps) We could then have a transport dump the container at a certain place, and then successive visits could fill it up with fuel for the jumps. When the BS jumps though the systems, it would need to fill up again for each system.
I think it should take a large amount of fuel to create the 'pinch-field' to hyperspace to the next system, and the same amount of fuel regardless of the ships being transported: otherwise the ships that are docked with the carrier could make the carrier too heavy to jump.
Thus, traders would not abuse it because it only jumps you one system, and it takes all your fuel to jump, so you cannot jump away without more, and if you really want, you can spend a week lining up all the fuel caches to do one trade run in 15 mins.
Fuel degradation I'm not sure on. It'd take some observations and tweaking there to decide weather or not it should or shouldn't (as it would be hard enough to search for, mine, and survive mining in the first place).
As for a one-system jump... Cheshire did raise a valid point, if it's TOO limited in range it'd be too much effort for too little gain to be viable, so there wouldn't be any advantages to using it over jump-holes and it'd be a waste of money.
On the other hand, unlimited range jumps would definitely be worth the effort, but it would raise issues with whole LN fleets jumping into New Berlin, or the BAF saying hai to New Tokyo (lulz).
Simple compromise would be to limit the range to 3/4/5 or so systems, or make it impossible to jump into direct proximity to planets or stars (which would have gravity wells of various sizes) as suggested by Gary. Whichever solution is easiest to script.
Alternately, make a distance vs fuel cost equasion, so you'd have to factor in ship cargo space, distance, and weather you want to be able to do a two-way jump, so even if the LN fleet DOES make it into New Berlin, and there's no gravity well around, it'd have to withdraw on conventional drives and get hunted down by the RM in hamburg.
Hyperspace Drives - Cannon - 04-23-2010
Wooot woot! Awesome idea. When do we get it?
Hyperspace Drives - Durandal - 04-23-2010
When you make it, apparently.
Seriously though, this would be great, and would definitely contribute to RP in general.
Hyperspace Drives - Crusader4 - 04-23-2010
[color=#CC6600]i like the Hyperspace Drive idea, if it could be made somehow it would make game more interesting.
And btw, i posted the Docking idea to in the Discovery Mod: Ideas & Feature Requests topic on Feb 16. :D
And btw, i posted the Docking idea to in the Discovery Mod: Ideas & Feature Requests topic on Feb 16. :D